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Mental illness, mass shootings, and the politics of American firearms (2015)

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Re: Mental illness, mass shootings, and the politics of American firearms (2015)

#391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’d be great if guns didn’t exist, but since this would require totally abolishing the current political, legal, and cultural system of the US and replacing it with something new, it’s hard to see how to get there in practice.

By doing just that.

To be clear: concretely, you’re advocating total revolutionary overthrow of the present US regime (which is almost guaranteed to lead to civil war) in order to solve the problem of school shootings? Or did I misunderstand you?

Re: Mental illness, mass shootings, and the politics of American firearms (2015)

#393
post #113

I sincerely hope this does not descend into a flamewar. We can't have discussion about this in an intellectually stimulating way in congress, we can't have this discussion in the media, we obviously can't have this discussion on social media so HN is the last bastion of hope. It is a multi-faceted problem with a lot of complexity. The fact stands that USA has a school shooting problem [1] unlike any other country in…

If we look at the data we can see a significant increase in the last decade, and the mass school shootings are almost exclusively a modern concept from the last 30 years. A question one might ask is then what changed in the USA during those years to trigger this. In addition those factors should be compared to other nations. We should also look at what prevent school shootings. What in society might protect against a…

I think psychology is one of the issues. You go from being "particular" to ADHD, or chronically depressed, clinical anxious, ODD... And from those diagnostics most, I imagine, will typically end up on medications. It's the path of least resistance for the parent(s). Beyond that it can be used as an apparatus to excuse behaviors, or to broker certain exceptions. It can also become a narrative tool used to nucleate an identity, and that can be a hazard in some cases.

I don't think we do focus on individualism, either, and that's a problem. Proper individualism entails rigid personal accountability. Perhaps it's implied, and in effect what we've done is given a child a hammer without teaching them to swing it, no doubt many a sore thumb. In fact I really wonder if it's even probable that teachers can meaningfully interface with all but a few students.

I think workload has been increasing, and that's the anecdotal feedback I've gotten - harder work for younger kids. Less time for exploratory learning. Boys are perceived to have a significantly worse time than their female peers by their teachers. They also end up more disciplined. They're more likely to be "diagnosed" with ADHD than girls by a factor of two. Boys also experience higher dropout rates and juvenile detention. There's also an increasing rate of single mothers, and single parents just do not have it easy, women especially - and that puts more pressures onto the kids.

Support structures can be dogshit. Economy has moved. Families have been fractured and dispersed over long distances. And society doesn't really have the many support groups it once did. I can't speak statistically, but hearing about the dirt roads of the Denver Metro in the 70's and driving through it now, it's insanely packed. I grew up in rural areas, there were never any pretensions about danger or safety, and me and my friends wandered all over the town totally unsupervised as late as 2004. I don't know that such privileges are extended to these kids growing up in cities.

Expectations is another thing. Not only do the institutions make comparisons, they do it explicitly and loudly, but so do the kids. Yeah, the socioeconomic disparities I don't have any doubt play a role, but there's also kids watching these "perfect family" videos on youtube, watching super-human feats of every sort, egregious conspicuous consumption... And then they're just average, but the skew that such exposure introduces is, I can only imagine, pretty dangerous to some kids.

It's so multifaceted though. We've really got to look at the individuals holistically, track every step and kind of come to a real understanding of why they did it.

Re: Mental illness, mass shootings, and the politics of American firearms (2015)

#394
post #389

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's clear that this is the way Americans wish to live That’s not clear at all. The US has more anti-gun-violence activists than anywhere else in the world. There is some amount of friction, different in each country but not zero anywhere, between “what people want” and “what is the law”. Do you think North Koreans prefer living under a corrupt dictatorship? Why don’t they just make the dictatorship illegal? That’s…

If enough people actually cared about this, then you’d have people marching on the capitol, like after a certain president was not re-elected. If people haven’t gotten motivated enough after literally decades of this shit, I find it really hard to blame the law.

> If enough people actually cared about this, then you’d have people marching on the capitol, like after a certain president was not re-elected.

People do care, and they do protest and march, and like most protests anywhere it does not change anything. Sorry but you seem to have a very naive view of the effectiveness of protests.

By the way, the pro-Trump protests didn’t achieve anything either (other than furthering the US’s slide into bitter ultra-partisan division and total erosion of trust in institutions). Notably, they did not successfully enable Trump to remain president. So what is your point?

Re: Mental illness, mass shootings, and the politics of American firearms (2015)

#395

As a foreigner I find this subject very complex since the right to bear arms in on the US constitution. To change or "rewrite" the constitution trying to deal with this subject could dissolve the US. Banning guns altogether (rather improbable) will only leave law abiding citizens at the mercy of criminals. More protection in schools could be a starting point to address these awful events. I'm still in favor of law ab…

> Banning guns altogether (rather improbable) will only leave law abiding citizens at the mercy of criminals.

How do you imagine this works? I’ve been ‘at the mercy of criminals’ my entire life, but I’ve never had to fear getting randomly gunned down in my school, or on the street, or in a bar brawl.

I do not see how a sensible person would ever choose the alternative.

Re: Mental illness, mass shootings, and the politics of American firearms (2015)

#396
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you are suggesting is illegal. Its illegal to license a right. We shouldn't penalize the hundreds of millions of legal gun owners in the US because we're unable to catch psychopaths before they kill people.

This is part of why a sensible discussion cannot be had. "Shall not be infringed" has become axiomatic to many gun owners. Disclaimer: I am a gun owner. I like guns very much. Here's the 2A in full: "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." I am not a historian but I believe that this quote from James Madison in…

"National Guard-- which is a reserve force of the US Military"

That is why anyone stating the National Guard is a standin for "well armed militia" is wrong..."a reserve force of the US Military" is not representative of the people; it is a protector of whomever is in power at any moment in the US.

Re: Mental illness, mass shootings, and the politics of American firearms (2015)

#397
post #79

What if guns were treated similarly to cars? Mandatory training, License w/ renewals, registration w/ renewals, insurance mandatory, yearly inspection mandatory, etc. Personally I feel people should be able to defend themselves while at the same time deterred from stockpiling and accessing mass casualty capable arms.

So... You don't need a license to own or drive a car on your own property, I don't think. Or go through a background check to buy one.

It's just that we have public roads, upon which it's difficult to hide a car while in use. Yet routinely many people drive unregistered and uninsured vehicles.

Re: Mental illness, mass shootings, and the politics of American firearms (2015)

#399
post #381
post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think in this context it is used more to refer to something that ‘has functionalities that no civilian would ever need’.

Quoted post unavailable.

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Re: Mental illness, mass shootings, and the politics of American firearms (2015)

#400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting. When compared to places like Australia, where guns are highly regulated and barely anyone owns a gun, such that there have been no mass shootings for 35 years, the solution really is obvious.

> the solution really is obvious. Well, from a programmers perspective - it's all about what you are optimizing for. We can end all car related deaths as well by outlawing all automotive vehicles. We can eliminate or curb most sexual diseases by regimenting who one can have sex with. We can end homelessness, by quartering local vagrants in the homes of the citizenry. Solutions are easy. Side effects are less so. If w…

What are uncoordinated individuals with handguns or even rifles going to do vs modern combined arms of the most powerful military in the world?
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