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On Aging Alone (2021)

thewalrus.ca

321–330 of 338 posts

Re: On Aging Alone (2021)

#321
post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am 62. About fifteen years ago I could have written almost exactly what you have written above. I blew up my long term marriage because of my fucked up thinking. It was a horrible mistake and one that I regret essentially every day. Of course, maybe it's all different for you. I mean that. I'm only suggesting something to check. Have a look at the material under "Nice Guy Syndrome" by Dr. Robert Glover. [1] Maybe g…

The flip side is that you know now that it was a mistake. Would you still be happy today if you hadn’t left, but without knowing it was the right choice? Happiness is a fickle thing.

Isn't this just gonna result in stories based on survivorship bias? Those who put it all on red and won, aren't going to have the same experience as those who lost.

Re: On Aging Alone (2021)

#322
post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My experience so far is women over 30 are dead inside Care to elaborate?

They lose their looks but maintain high standards for men. This leads to them waiting for a man who is less and less likely to appear with each passing year. Many want children but know it's already too late. The clock has run out. The fire is gone. Many are on anti-depressants or in therapy etc. After many relationships they seem to lose their ability to bond with a man. And most of them don't truly get any fulfilme…

The sentences at the start might be brutal but true. However...

> Many are on anti-depressants or in therapy etc. After many relationships they seem to lose their ability to bond with a man. And most of them don't truly get any fulfilment from work, hobbies, friends etc. Not having children is a huge void in their lives which they often fill with cats.

I think you're projecting some very unhelpful stereotypes. Women aren't just breeding machines. Nothing wrong with therapy. And I know many who are doing just fine with work, hobbies, friends, etc.

Re: On Aging Alone (2021)

#323
post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They lose their looks but maintain high standards for men. This leads to them waiting for a man who is less and less likely to appear with each passing year. Many want children but know it's already too late. The clock has run out. The fire is gone. Many are on anti-depressants or in therapy etc. After many relationships they seem to lose their ability to bond with a man. And most of them don't truly get any fulfilme…

The sentences at the start might be brutal but true. However... > Many are on anti-depressants or in therapy etc. After many relationships they seem to lose their ability to bond with a man. And most of them don't truly get any fulfilment from work, hobbies, friends etc. Not having children is a huge void in their lives which they often fill with cats. I think you're projecting some very unhelpful stereotypes. Women…

If they were doing fine with work, hobbies, friends etc. they wouldn't be on dating apps.

Re: On Aging Alone (2021)

#324
post #91

Loving families are easy to idealize from afar. How many families actually fit that profile? I’m not entirely sure. This is not a jaded attempt to say the pursuit of relationships or family aren’t worthwhile. I just want to set some context here for those feeling lonely, for those who feel like they are standing outside in the cold on the street looking through windows into warm living rooms full of people with warm…

Quoting Tolstoy may seem low effort, but it feels warranted here: "All happy families are alike, but every unhappy family is unhappy in its own way."

A great first line for a novel, but perhaps not really so.

Re: On Aging Alone (2021)

#325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Think about what you're saying a bit. Why are the "others" you're describing destined to be alone? At the very least, couldn't they have each other? It's easier and more rewarding to just be more compassionate to others, and I don't think it's impossible to design social structures that at least make some attempt to serve everyone's emotional needs. Whether they'll be successful is circumstantial, and I don't think i…

I support your optimism and believe we can move in that direction. However I still believe you severely underestimate the scale of misery, solitude, and unmet desires amongst humanity. Also, you mention it won't be possible to make everyone perfectly content, implying some will be more content than others. How is that fair? Why must some have fewer friends, lovers, positive experiences, adventures, achievements etc?…

I’ve seen the horror of abuse and know the wrecked people that come out of mental institutions. I know the hopelessness of those without skills surrounded by predatory people. I understand the brutality of caste systems and the superficial rejection of good people for stupid fleeting status games. I understand the history of the world and current and past slavery and all the brutality we inflict on each other. But I think we can try to do just a bit better than yesterday, and make our little part of the world better if we’re proper stewards. I’d rather die trying to do that and teach others than to roll over and allow the world to degenerate without any kind of fight, or give an opiate to a person to whom I could instead give a cure.

I think focusing on inequality is an egregious mistake, and is a consequence of a perspective where comparison to others is paramount. Worth and contentment should not be viewed as related to the circumstances of others, it should be something each of us compares to our own prior circumstances.

If we are doing better than we were yesterday, that is immensely positive. And I believe that is possible for everyone. I believe everyone can find a friend out there that enriches them, and we can get the world to think and value compassion and social bonds just a tiny bit more than the day before.

If AI can supplement people when they’re in dire straights, and it works, then sure. But it won’t ever equalize the experience of everyone, because everyone is coming from a different place, and I don’t think it will ever substitute true human connection. The goal should be enrichment, and trying to increase positivity without taking from others. Social interaction is mutually beneficial when done correctly and can accomplish that.

The key and the challenge is to pair and train people in such a way that people are incrementally uplifted and not torn down. I think if AI has a place, it is best used to figure out optimal pairings that encourage that growth.

Re: On Aging Alone (2021)

#326
post #91

Loving families are easy to idealize from afar. How many families actually fit that profile? I’m not entirely sure. This is not a jaded attempt to say the pursuit of relationships or family aren’t worthwhile. I just want to set some context here for those feeling lonely, for those who feel like they are standing outside in the cold on the street looking through windows into warm living rooms full of people with warm…

I'm in my 60's. Wasn't going to retire yet, but covid changed my mind. It seemed easier & safer. (Finances not so easy, but oh well.) Parents gone a while now. Three siblings still living; all married; 2 nephews. Whole family seems a bit strange to me, but wouldn't trade them for anything. Maybe I'm the strange one. ;) Only a handful of real friends, maybe half are gone now, but got a couple new ones in their 30's. O…

I can’t help but notice how you talk about your family.

I don’t think size, kids, proximity, or frequency of visits is universal; there’s going to be lots of differences between people. But I think everyone benefits from knowing there are at least a few people in the world that they care about and that care about them.

I find some of the people in the comments that believe lots of people are destined to die alone, should commit suicide, or have AI companions instead pretty disturbing, frankly. I think trying to relate to others, even if only a few people, is a much better way to go about life that should be encouraged.

Re: On Aging Alone (2021)

#327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let her in anyway. She might not leave, but if she does, you'll know that you gave yourself a chance to be your true 'dark' self with her. Your dark self may be treatable, even.

I don't know that I want to treat it - it's the core of me after all, and I've only ever felt "broken" in a marriage situation. And it's not like my thoughts are always dark anyway, it varies. It's more like a conversation between two people, with 100% trust, and where nothing is off limits - but it all takes place in my head. So it's difficult to share, because it's self contained and dynamic. As I mentioned, I grew…

Given thoughts that are socially unacceptable in conversation, consider working them out at one step removed, as the thoughts of some fictional character in an invented story. Perhaps in the form of a novel, or stage play or film script.

Re: On Aging Alone (2021)

#328
post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The sentences at the start might be brutal but true. However... > Many are on anti-depressants or in therapy etc. After many relationships they seem to lose their ability to bond with a man. And most of them don't truly get any fulfilment from work, hobbies, friends etc. Not having children is a huge void in their lives which they often fill with cats. I think you're projecting some very unhelpful stereotypes. Women…

If they were doing fine with work, hobbies, friends etc. they wouldn't be on dating apps.

Oh, I didn't realize you were talking specifically about people on dating apps...

Re: On Aging Alone (2021)

#329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps but I would surmise that the people that would benefit from being in those communities would naturally form irregardless of the distractions of commodified companionship. But that ignores the ones that unwilling or incapable of joining into the communities you describe. Wouldn't this substitution of a human connection be of positive benefit to all involved then?

I don't think companionship can be commodified, and I think any attempt to do so would be the equivalent of an opiate. While there may be specific contexts where it could have utility, I think it's far healthier to encourage those who lack the inclination or willingness to join communities to do so. That's why I mentioned leadership. I think we have a responsibility to give lots of opportunities and encouragement for…

If I lack willingness it's because I don't want to. Why are you trying to force me to do something I don't want? Just let me have the AI companion I long for.

Re: On Aging Alone (2021)

#330
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my 30's my therapist called that "being a doormat."

my sense is there are defensible reasons you might not want to be assertive or entirely transparent to everyone around you doesn't necessarily mean you're letting yourself be trampled

It is not healthy to live under that kind of pressure from others. And one thing therapy taught me: there is absolutely no reason for you to live under that kind of pressure. None. It is your choice.
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