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Not a single car was sold in Shanghai last month

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Re: Not a single car was sold in Shanghai last month

#241

Post by lowkey_ »

CogitoCogito wrote: post #232
ctoth wrote: post #201

Whenever I think about the situation in China it makes me wonder why the Chinese government is spending so much political capital to keep people from getting infected by such an incredibly transmissible disease. I had this idea that China was run by engineer types who were fairly rational. From the initial denial that there was any disease at all, to later saying it wasn't transmissible between humans, to the obvious…

> I had this idea that China was run by engineer types who were fairly rational. Why did you have this idea?

As someone who has studied East Asian history, it's commonly said that Mao's adversaries within the CCP were the "technocrats," and that the technocrats are the ones who took power after Mao's passing — and still hold power to this day.

Here's a couple articles on China's technocrats:

https://macropolo.org/analysis/return-technocrats-chinese-po...

https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/07/04/chinas-overrated-techno...

Re: Not a single car was sold in Shanghai last month

#242

Post by [deleted] »

xyzzy123 wrote: post #70
whimsicalism wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But most of China has not been on lockdown for most of the pandemic. Most people have experienced less lockdown than in the US, albeit more intense when it is locked down. 4 million excess deaths is a ton no matter which way you look at it.

I agree and the strategy makes sense for China. Since it is now more or less endemic in the rest of the world it will be interesting to see how long they will maintain it. Ultimately zero covid is a thing you do to buy time for your healthcare system or for better vaccination coverage (or just to kick the can, maybe you get better tech). The 4 million deaths are inevitable unless you can maintain zero COVID forever o…

[deleted]

Re: Not a single car was sold in Shanghai last month

#243

Post by the8472 »

whimsicalism wrote: post #86
xyzzy123 wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree and the strategy makes sense for China. Since it is now more or less endemic in the rest of the world it will be interesting to see how long they will maintain it. Ultimately zero covid is a thing you do to buy time for your healthcare system or for better vaccination coverage (or just to kick the can, maybe you get better tech). The 4 million deaths are inevitable unless you can maintain zero COVID forever o…

> fundamentally change the situation for people who are very vulnerable to COVID-19 the situation is already fundamentally changed in terms of treatment efficacy than what it was in 2020.

Not just treatment but also the availability of vaccines. Of course if you fail to use the bought time to improve vaccination levels then you wasted it.

Re: Not a single car was sold in Shanghai last month

#244

Post by Kranar »

CogitoCogito wrote: post #232
ctoth wrote: post #201

Whenever I think about the situation in China it makes me wonder why the Chinese government is spending so much political capital to keep people from getting infected by such an incredibly transmissible disease. I had this idea that China was run by engineer types who were fairly rational. From the initial denial that there was any disease at all, to later saying it wasn't transmissible between humans, to the obvious…

> I had this idea that China was run by engineer types who were fairly rational. Why did you have this idea?

Almost every member of the State Council of China consists of people with STEM degrees (mostly engineering), followed by some with an economics/finance background.

Re: Not a single car was sold in Shanghai last month

#245

Post by lostgame »

akomtu wrote: post #235
ctoth wrote: post #201

Whenever I think about the situation in China it makes me wonder why the Chinese government is spending so much political capital to keep people from getting infected by such an incredibly transmissible disease. I had this idea that China was run by engineer types who were fairly rational. From the initial denial that there was any disease at all, to later saying it wasn't transmissible between humans, to the obvious…

Cynical take: covid is a pretense here, it's actually a fire drill. China wants Taiwan and is prepairing its populace for life under martial law.

I wish I could disagree; but this is a close to the truth as could be. :( Sad state of affairs over there.

Re: Not a single car was sold in Shanghai last month

#246

Post by sophacles »

spookthesunset wrote: post #112
edmcnulty101 wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just went to CNN and NYTimes and ctrl+f for China, Nytimes has a single article about students protesting the lock down and CNN requires to go to a specific China section to view coverage. So it's apparently lower priority not front page news.

I mean NYT and other media outlets were begging for this type of “real lockdown” the entire time. Not to mention tons of people. This is the “real lockdown” they all wanted. Well, this is what a “real” lockdown looks like! They are “taking it serious” over in China! I still can’t get over how so many countries and states decided to copy china back in march 2020. What you see here is the end result of letting exactly…

In march 2020, the virus hadn't gotten literally everywhere yet. It hadn't mutated through several new strains. It was a completely different situation. I'm really struggling to understand how these things can be equated, even if I squint really hard.

Re: Not a single car was sold in Shanghai last month

#247

Post by flumpcakes »

WalterBright wrote: post #234
maigret wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Getting COVID today is way less dangerous than getting it two years ago.

I'm not so sure. Perhaps the difference is the highly vulnerable people have already died.

I think it would go to far to say all vulnerable people have died.

Having the required two shots and a booster (mixed or otherwise) seems to not only reduce the likelihood of getting COVID but also reduces how severely you are affected if you do catch it.

Re: Not a single car was sold in Shanghai last month

#248

Post by lostgame »

yalogin wrote: post #43

I did not realize there is such a strict lockdown even now. Somehow missed that news cycle. However that makes me wonder if the other countries in the world like India and major parts of the US even test now. I mean unless it’s absolutely clear it’s covid they probably don’t test and go on with their lives.

What absolutely messed me up - and I seriously mean, significant trigger warning if you look this up - was a Reddit video I saw of the collective screams and moans all the trapped people in the high rises…it’s seriously haunting, harrowing; and terrifying.

I’ve had COVID; and it was certainly a significantly less hellish experience than what these poor folks are going through. :(

Re: Not a single car was sold in Shanghai last month

#249

Post by twic »

drited wrote: post #202
_fat_santa wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been following the situation and it's absolutely wild. It all stems from their Zero covid policy, they are the only country still perusing it, to the absolute detriment and destruction of everything else it seems. With how fast Omicron spreads, zero-covid is simply untenable these days but China is trying... The basic report is that people are starving. The government has provided food but the food situation is…

I asked a Chinese friend who is studying the ongoing restrictions about this. He told me that over 80 vaccination rates in China are only c. 55 percent vs 80 percent in the over 60 category. In HK death rates from omicron were quite high due to the same reason when it had its spike some weeks ago. I too was baffled until I learned of the above.

What i don't understand is how the Chinese authorities can lock down whole cities indefinitely, but can't force a few geriatrics to have an injection.

Re: Not a single car was sold in Shanghai last month

#250

Post by geoduck14 »

akomtu wrote: post #235
ctoth wrote: post #201

Whenever I think about the situation in China it makes me wonder why the Chinese government is spending so much political capital to keep people from getting infected by such an incredibly transmissible disease. I had this idea that China was run by engineer types who were fairly rational. From the initial denial that there was any disease at all, to later saying it wasn't transmissible between humans, to the obvious…

Cynical take: covid is a pretense here, it's actually a fire drill. China wants Taiwan and is prepairing its populace for life under martial law.

Before we jump to unfounded theories, can I lay down some solid observations:

1)Humans are really bad at responding to highly-unlikely events. Like: is it safer to drive or fly? And knowing which one, how would you change your travel plans? You would probably over react, or not react at all - and both would be a reflection of our inability respond to highly-unlikely events

2) Humans hate uncertainty. You ask someone a question... and then wait for an answer, we want to interject "facts" to get an answer faster. We have a vague threat, we want to protect ourselves - even if that means bringing something even worse on us.

In the US, I've seen both sides of the political aisle respond poorly to uncertainty. On the left, I see "lock everything down". On the right I see "all freedoms for everyone all of the time". Personally, I have been on both sides of those decisions

My theory: China is responding to to the uncertainty with something they are comfortable with: wide spread conformity. That's not a bad thing - is it simply how they find comfort

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