Whenever I think about the situation in China it makes me wonder why the Chinese government is spending so much political capital to keep people from getting infected by such an incredibly transmissible disease. I had this idea that China was run by engineer types who were fairly rational.
From the initial denial that there was any disease at all, to later saying it wasn't transmissible between humans, to the obvious lies about the initial death toll, to now attempting to lock down more than any other country, I'm very curious what officials in China know about this particular disease that they aren't sharing with the rest of the world.
Not a single car was sold in Shanghai last month
201–210 of 366 posts
Re: Not a single car was sold in Shanghai last month
#202I did not realize there is such a strict lockdown even now. Somehow missed that news cycle. However that makes me wonder if the other countries in the world like India and major parts of the US even test now. I mean unless it’s absolutely clear it’s covid they probably don’t test and go on with their lives.
I've been following the situation and it's absolutely wild. It all stems from their Zero covid policy, they are the only country still perusing it, to the absolute detriment and destruction of everything else it seems. With how fast Omicron spreads, zero-covid is simply untenable these days but China is trying... The basic report is that people are starving. The government has provided food but the food situation is…
I asked a Chinese friend who is studying the ongoing restrictions about this. He told me that over 80 vaccination rates in China are only c. 55 percent vs 80 percent in the over 60 category.
In HK death rates from omicron were quite high due to the same reason when it had its spike some weeks ago.
I too was baffled until I learned of the above.
Re: Not a single car was sold in Shanghai last month
#203Earlier quoted context omitted.
Everyone other than the Chinese government seems to agree that a zero covid policy isn't realistic anymore. And empirically, they haven't succeeded. But ... why is that the case? Why _doesn't_ an ultra-strict lockdown for this long prevent spread (and allow existing cases to resolve)? What are the remaining opportunities for it to spread? Throughout 2021, I had sort of told myself that most of the harms of the pandem…
I agree with you. I also thought we were screwed in the West precisely because we couldn't do the kind of strict lockdowns China initially did, which worked so well for them. Things have changed. I would say because countries don't exist in a vacuum, it's not tenable to have a covid zero policy. You'll always get reinfected from outside. This is only more apparent as covid had become more infectious. Combined with ef…
The problem with comparing out success to China's is that we know China lies about their numbers. From the outside yeah it looks like what China did worked; however, can we really trust the numbers? Hell can we trust the numbers coming out of the US or any other country.
Re: Not a single car was sold in Shanghai last month
#204Earlier quoted context omitted.
I've been following the situation and it's absolutely wild. It all stems from their Zero covid policy, they are the only country still perusing it, to the absolute detriment and destruction of everything else it seems. With how fast Omicron spreads, zero-covid is simply untenable these days but China is trying... The basic report is that people are starving. The government has provided food but the food situation is…
Everyone other than the Chinese government seems to agree that a zero covid policy isn't realistic anymore. And empirically, they haven't succeeded. But ... why is that the case? Why _doesn't_ an ultra-strict lockdown for this long prevent spread (and allow existing cases to resolve)? What are the remaining opportunities for it to spread? Throughout 2021, I had sort of told myself that most of the harms of the pandem…
If the whole world did this and the virus was contained, perhaps it would have worked out. But millions and millions of people caught it and are breeding more and more contagious strains on a continuous basis. All signs were that the original COVID strain was relatively contagious but Delta and now Omicron have accelerated that to just crazy levels, and there are new variations on Omicron coming down the pipe that look even faster. I don't know if anything can keep it contained now but putting everyone who catches it into a cage is definitely not a viable strategy.
Re: Not a single car was sold in Shanghai last month
#205Earlier quoted context omitted.
Re: the masks on planes. Assume a linear rate of virus particle shedding per breath and calculate the total viral load in the air of the plane over time, assuming the mask can catch a resonable proportion. The "pointless ceremony" of "masks while not eating" works out better. I think because we see ourselves as "sick or not sick" and "infected or not infected", people are not very calibrated to think or care about ma…
if masks work so well, why didn't they work? how did omicron get around the world in like two weeks flat when everyone was wearing masks on planes? at what point does covid making an utter mockery of our mitigation efforts start to dent your faith in them?
Why not one week? Masks aren't perfect, and they don't make sense in every context but a plane IMHO is actually reasonable.
Not every context is the same.
I'm willing to acknowledge that the data is not great, but I think the action is more or less "plausible" and IMHO the suffering is small.
Re: Not a single car was sold in Shanghai last month
#206I did not realize there is such a strict lockdown even now. Somehow missed that news cycle. However that makes me wonder if the other countries in the world like India and major parts of the US even test now. I mean unless it’s absolutely clear it’s covid they probably don’t test and go on with their lives.
I've been following the situation and it's absolutely wild. It all stems from their Zero covid policy, they are the only country still perusing it, to the absolute detriment and destruction of everything else it seems. With how fast Omicron spreads, zero-covid is simply untenable these days but China is trying... The basic report is that people are starving. The government has provided food but the food situation is…
> another revolution will occur
So the playbook of the CCP in cities seems to be push and push and push until the people revolt and then you cull the activists that are willing to fight by running the army through the streets and shooting everyone that's revolting. This has been a thing since Maos purges and it's the same thing they did in Hong Kong by slowly adding stupid rules until the people willing to revolt had enough.
Zero covid seems so stupid that I am inclined to think someone is just taking advantage of this to identify and purge citizens that are willing to violate government mandates.
Re: Not a single car was sold in Shanghai last month
#207Quoted post unavailable.
When people wonder why some folks are skeptical of climate activism, remember there are people celebrating locking population centers in their homes and being barred from private transportation and then reflect a bit on why people who are generally against authoritarianism aren't gung-ho about taking environmental concerns to their logical state ran solutions.
That's mostly a feat coming from the right wing propaganda machine though.
You have a history of environmental regulation you can look at, with say, DDT, CFCs, and acid rain
Re: Not a single car was sold in Shanghai last month
#208Whenever I think about the situation in China it makes me wonder why the Chinese government is spending so much political capital to keep people from getting infected by such an incredibly transmissible disease. I had this idea that China was run by engineer types who were fairly rational. From the initial denial that there was any disease at all, to later saying it wasn't transmissible between humans, to the obvious…
Re: Not a single car was sold in Shanghai last month
#209Pre-vaccines, China’s Zero COVID approached seemed wise and impressive. Now it is clear that they were just paranoiacs and now have a policy that doesn’t meet the moment.
Or creators of the virus know about some of its dangers more than the rest of the world.
Like most things made in China, COVID-19 was poorly engineered, just like their ham-fisted approach to combating it. Something about totalitarian regimes causes a race to the bottom in human rights, arts, and sciences.
Re: Not a single car was sold in Shanghai last month
#210I did not realize there is such a strict lockdown even now. Somehow missed that news cycle. However that makes me wonder if the other countries in the world like India and major parts of the US even test now. I mean unless it’s absolutely clear it’s covid they probably don’t test and go on with their lives.
I've been following the situation and it's absolutely wild. It all stems from their Zero covid policy, they are the only country still perusing it, to the absolute detriment and destruction of everything else it seems. With how fast Omicron spreads, zero-covid is simply untenable these days but China is trying... The basic report is that people are starving. The government has provided food but the food situation is…
> It's an entirely baffling situation
One of the theories I've read is that CV is a cover for a shutdown related to incipient WW3 - to further stretch failing supply lines to breaking point and thereby hurt the West.
I'm not saying I support this theory, I really have no way of proving it one way or the other, but given how strange China's response is thought to be it does make one wonder.