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When old historic maps overlap with modern political maps

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Re: When old historic maps overlap with modern political maps

#171

Post by michaelcampbell »

BenoitP wrote: post #101

There's an interesting one linking geology and politics in the north of France, kinda like the Alabama one: A coal basin [1] predicts low revenues [2] and political votes for far right [3]. I'm no political or demographical historian, but the gist of the story IMHO is that there was a coal boom. People settled there, and not much else was invested in the region. So when coal mines went bust, no other industry could c…

Much of the recent book "There's Nothing For You Here" by Fiona Hill talks about some of this effect in her northern England upbringing.

Re: When old historic maps overlap with modern political maps

#172

Post by dang »

Svoka wrote: post #25
tut-urut-utut wrote: post #15

Quoted post unavailable.

What do you mean by "Russian territory"? Colony of Ukraine (aka Kyivana Rus) or colony of Mongolia? Or may be USSR occupation? Russian Federation is made up country for dumbass fascists like you.

You can't post like this to HN, regardless of how wrong someone else is or you feel they are. We ban accounts that break the rules this badly, and unfortunately, you've been breaking them pretty badly on several occasions lately. I don't want to ban you, so if you'd please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stick to the rules when posting here, we'd appreciate it.

I'm sure your strong feelings on this conflict are quite legitimate, but that doesn't make it ok to post that way to HN. You may not feel you owe better to the enemy side, but you owe this community better if you're participating in it.

Re: When old historic maps overlap with modern political maps

#173

Post by brandnewaccount »

fsckboy wrote: post #151
diordiderot wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems you make a claim in the first paragraph... Then provide reasoning to dispute it in the second?

makes a claim in the first paragraph (eastern half is the way it is because russian occupied) and provides clarifying context in the second (and not because there was anything good about german occupation in west)

Claim:

> the first map with Poland [...] doesn't explain much.

Reasoning that disputes it:

> The Russian partition [...] was the cause of the area in blue being poor and underdeveloped

For these to be contradictory statements, the Russian partition must refer to something meaningfully different than what the map with Poland refers to. Is that true? I'm no history buff, I'll leave it up to others to say.

Re: When old historic maps overlap with modern political maps

#174

Post by krzyk »

walrusfromspace wrote: post #168
krzyk wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

USSR was actually much worse than Nazi Germany. They had much more time to do bad things. And even if we only account WWII timeline, people in territories between Germany and USSR preferred to be conquered by Germans, purely because their soldiers were more disciplined than the ones from USSR (which were just peasants, frequently even without boots, equipped with weapons).

Which is tragic considering that the Nazis did not see any future for those people other than dead or slaves. Somehow people forget that the Nazis wanted to kill or enslave all Slavs[1] within their "lebensraum" territories. [1] They also considered Estonians and Finns as "Mongoloids" and as such subhuman although both were elevated to "Aryan" status following the winter war.

Nazis wanted to enslave Slavs, not kill them. USSR wanted to kill anyone that had above elementary school education - basically killing the head. Which was much better end strategy, because there wouldn't be anyone to revolt.

Re: When old historic maps overlap with modern political maps

#175

Post by krzyk »

thriftwy wrote: post #170
krzyk wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you a Jew that was there during the start of WW2? Russians (USSR, potato-potato) at that time were exterminating most of people that had any kind of education - because those were potential "traitors". Most Jews were intelligence class, which was considered enemy of the "working class".

Imagine you are a Jew. Would you prefer to stay in the Soviet occupation zone and try your luck, or would you choose the Nazi zone (because what can go wrong, isn't it in the EU). Indeed, many of eastern european countries used the period of Nazi occupation to get rid of as many jews and gypsies as possible. I'm not going to point fingers but you should double-check your history.

> Indeed, many of eastern european countries used the period of Nazi occupation to get rid of as many jews and gypsies as possible. I'm not going to point fingers but you should double-check your history.

Not countries, but stupid people. There a lot of those that envy others.

Same happened in Soviet occupation but for different reasons. Either way EE was f**ed. Check why there were so many Jews in Eastern Europe when comparing to Western (they found save place here because they weren't so much persecuted like in the West).

Re: When old historic maps overlap with modern political maps

#176

Post by krzyk »

klausjensen wrote: post #167
krzyk wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

USSR was actually much worse than Nazi Germany. They had much more time to do bad things. And even if we only account WWII timeline, people in territories between Germany and USSR preferred to be conquered by Germans, purely because their soldiers were more disciplined than the ones from USSR (which were just peasants, frequently even without boots, equipped with weapons).

If you focus only on the non-jewish civilian population of Poland, then I guess you could argue Soviet was worse... But in any larger context, Nazi-Germany were much, much worse.

By larger context you mean what? Choosing between Jew or Polish population?

Or maybe lets see what happened in Ukraine which was under USSR occupation before the WW2 - Holodomor which resulted in up to 3 - 5.5 million people dead, which is close to Holocaust numbers.

When Soviet army marched everyone hid their daughters and wifes, to this day our grandparents tell stories how they were in the basements, or escaped to the west just not to be taken by Soviet soldiers.

On the other hand some parts of Poland were consider by Nazis as their land and they didn't rape or kill citizens, but they had obligatory conscription of capable man - many of them tried to hide and died if they were found.

Re: When old historic maps overlap with modern political maps

#177

Post by JohnClark1337 »

david422 wrote: post #164
bag_boy wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did not know that African Americans got together, had a vote, and decided that they’re happy to live in the US!

I wonder if we'll ever get to the point where we can just refer to people as Americans, instead of just some .

No post body was provided.

Re: When old historic maps overlap with modern political maps

#178

Post by klausjensen »

krzyk wrote: post #176
klausjensen wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you focus only on the non-jewish civilian population of Poland, then I guess you could argue Soviet was worse... But in any larger context, Nazi-Germany were much, much worse.

By larger context you mean what? Choosing between Jew or Polish population? Or maybe lets see what happened in Ukraine which was under USSR occupation before the WW2 - Holodomor which resulted in up to 3 - 5.5 million people dead, which is close to Holocaust numbers. When Soviet army marched everyone hid their daughters and wifes, to this day our grandparents tell stories how they were in the basements, or escaped to…

I am 100% in agreement with you about the atrocities commited by the Soviet Union, which clearly spills over on how they act today (still raping, torturing, executing civilians etc - and it seems acceptable and encouraged in their military culture).

I would just argue that Nazi-germany's industrial-scale extermination of jews, homosexuals, handicapped etc is still worse. Anyway - it is arguing semantics and definitions. :)

Re: When old historic maps overlap with modern political maps

#179

Post by daniel-cussen »

mike00632 wrote: post #141
whycombinetor wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's heartbreakingly tragic about this? Your statements reads as if a county having a high percentage of African American residents is negative.

I think you're ignoring the mistreatment of Black people in the black belt. For example, recently when Alabama instituted its voter ID laws it closed every DMV in the black belt so that Black people wouldn't have access to get IDs and vote.

Well...the fact plantations were more viable due to soil conditions, does that by itself mean the slaves were treated worse? Could be, could be.

Plus I believe rural blacks in the South just want to work good land, which by this point they often own. It's an agricultural area, the most people live on the best land. And further, the weather is more similar to Africa, hotter sunnier more humid. Subtropical. And then plus they're segregating of their own accord, they like each other they go to the same churches they share recipes for soul and Creole food, cook that pig good, share the crops. Sing together. Elect black representatives to go to Washington for them, being in a majority, that's another thing. Electing black Senators, that changes the game. And for that they need to be together in one place.

Re: When old historic maps overlap with modern political maps

#180

Post by Svoka »

dang wrote: post #172
Svoka wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean by "Russian territory"? Colony of Ukraine (aka Kyivana Rus) or colony of Mongolia? Or may be USSR occupation? Russian Federation is made up country for dumbass fascists like you.

You can't post like this to HN, regardless of how wrong someone else is or you feel they are. We ban accounts that break the rules this badly, and unfortunately, you've been breaking them pretty badly on several occasions lately. I don't want to ban you, so if you'd please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stick to the rules when posting here, we'd appreciate it. I'm sure your strong feeling…

you're right, I'm sorry. I'll just flag comments next time. Thank you for pointing that out.
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