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When old historic maps overlap with modern political maps

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Re: When old historic maps overlap with modern political maps

#111

Post by fsckboy »

philwelch wrote: post #107
jjoonathan wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It has no verdict on whether or not something should be changed. Hard disagree. The difficulty of discovering the reasons for Chesterton's Fence and the impossibility of ever being certain that you have discovered them all means that it actually is a general prescription for caution / against change. Of course, as always, it comes down to a judgement call. Do you understand the reasons for Chesterton's Fence well e…

I think the way you're conflating "for caution" and "against change" is a bit of sleight of hand though. I would definitely agree that it's a prescription for caution , but not necessarily against change .

the bias you detect is actually the bias of the changers; from experience we learn that the people who agitate for change are overwhelmingly likely to not look into the reasons things are the way they are.

Re: When old historic maps overlap with modern political maps

#112

Post by InitialLastName »

valarauko wrote: post #110
InitialLastName wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There were a substantial number of people of Spanish-Imperial descent (of a variety of conditions) who didn't just move south when the border moved. Even now you see old families who identify as Mexican with the submotto "we didn't cross the border, the border crossed us". Keep in mind that much of that area was under Spanish and/or Mexican control for almost twice as long as it has been in the US (~1550-1846 vs 1846…

Do we have any numbers for how many Mexican-Americans are of this descent?

I don't (I'd imagine it's of a similar quality to people in the US northeast whose ancestors came over on the Mayflower). However, I wouldn't be surprised at the finding that their presence has had a network effect (and a cultural effect) that encouraged people coming from Mexico more recently to settle in that area rather than (for example) spread into the Louisiana Purchase territory, for the same reasons that immigration from other countries also tends to settle and self-perpetuate in enclaves.

Re: When old historic maps overlap with modern political maps

#113

Post by scyzoryk_xyz »

One other way to think about this particular map of Poland/Germany is in context of 19th century industrialization. After WW2 the entire western half of Poland benefitted from remnants of a robust industrial infrastructure - especially rail. Here in Lower Silesia we still benefit from it in many ways.

Re: When old historic maps overlap with modern political maps

#114

Post by klausjensen »

thriftwy wrote: post #109
agapon wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Russian troll detected.

Seriously though, all of these russophobic eastern european countries are like: "Russia took our lands". First of all, it was not Russia but USSR who took your lands; second, USSR did not give these lands to Russia (even in the form of RSFSR) but to other russophobic eastern european countries . You are grown-ups now. Sort it out between yourselves.

The Russian delusions around WW2 are astonishing.

They (USSR was Russian-lead) were literally allied with Nazi-Germany and agreed to split Europe with them. They executed 20000+ Polish people in Katyn alone.

Re: When old historic maps overlap with modern political maps

#115

Post by whycombinetor »

daveslash wrote: post #39

Something similar that I find both fascinating and heart-breakingly tragic: The "Black Belt" in the U.S. Deep South. The Black Belt is both a geological term used to refer to the rich & dark soil [0] and a geopolitical term to refer to the high percentage of African Americans [1]. During the Cretaceous period, the shore-line at the time ran through the middle of Alabama and Mississippi, depositing rich organic deposi…

What's heartbreakingly tragic about this? Your statements reads as if a county having a high percentage of African American residents is negative.

Re: When old historic maps overlap with modern political maps

#116

Post by enasterosophes »

spicyusername wrote: post #2

In a way it would be surprising if we didn't see trends like this. Reminds me of this quote: Everything is what it is because it got that way. - D'Arcy Wentworth Thompson, On Growth and Form

I had the same thought. What, do people think the politics of a region gets routinely shuffled without any influence from geographical or historical context?

Re: When old historic maps overlap with modern political maps

#117

Post by thriftwy »

klausjensen wrote: post #114
thriftwy wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seriously though, all of these russophobic eastern european countries are like: "Russia took our lands". First of all, it was not Russia but USSR who took your lands; second, USSR did not give these lands to Russia (even in the form of RSFSR) but to other russophobic eastern european countries . You are grown-ups now. Sort it out between yourselves.

The Russian delusions around WW2 are astonishing. They (USSR was Russian-lead) were literally allied with Nazi-Germany and agreed to split Europe with them. They executed 20000+ Polish people in Katyn alone.

Yes, USSR had a pact with Nazi Germany. Until it hadn't.

So?

Re: When old historic maps overlap with modern political maps

#118

Post by bag_boy »

whycombinetor wrote: post #115
daveslash wrote: post #39

Something similar that I find both fascinating and heart-breakingly tragic: The "Black Belt" in the U.S. Deep South. The Black Belt is both a geological term used to refer to the rich & dark soil [0] and a geopolitical term to refer to the high percentage of African Americans [1]. During the Cretaceous period, the shore-line at the time ran through the middle of Alabama and Mississippi, depositing rich organic deposi…

What's heartbreakingly tragic about this? Your statements reads as if a county having a high percentage of African American residents is negative.

Most of African Americans who live in the BB are descendants of slaves. They didn’t want to be in the black belt.

Re: When old historic maps overlap with modern political maps

#119

Post by robbomacrae »

jccalhoun wrote: post #31
thinkingemote wrote: post #7

Peeve: To cause to be annoyed or resentful. synonym: annoy. These are not pet peeves at all, they are the persons pet loves. All examples are a type of "look at this great example, designed not to annoy or cause resentment at all, just the opposite! Aren't they cool and amazing?"

I was very confused by that thread. I kept scrolling to find where he explained why it was a pet peeve of his.

Same. Lets not tell any SEO/journalists this technique for keeping us reading an article we might have otherwise dismissed!

Re: When old historic maps overlap with modern political maps

#120

Post by bag_boy »

fsckboy wrote: post #108
daveslash wrote: post #39

Something similar that I find both fascinating and heart-breakingly tragic: The "Black Belt" in the U.S. Deep South. The Black Belt is both a geological term used to refer to the rich & dark soil [0] and a geopolitical term to refer to the high percentage of African Americans [1]. During the Cretaceous period, the shore-line at the time ran through the middle of Alabama and Mississippi, depositing rich organic deposi…

> heart-breakingly tragic African Americans are glad to be living in the US, and they're deeply enmeshed in the fabric of American society. Slavery was a bad part of history (and of the present where it still exists) but it's not more "heart-breakingly tragic" that a large number of African Americans today live on fertile land in the Old South any moreso than a large number of Aficans living on all sorts of land incl…

I did not know that African Americans got together, had a vote, and decided that they’re happy to live in the US!
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