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Passenger with “no idea how to fly” lands plane after pilot incapacitated

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Re: Passenger with “no idea how to fly” lands plane after pilot incapacitated

#471

Post by jaywalk »

tim333 wrote: post #468
Johnny555 wrote: post #388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Couldn't most of that be done by computer? Weight sensors in the wheels can determine weight and balance, the computer can evaluate the weather and plot the course taking into account all of the factors you noted, including refueling stops and emergency airfields, and it can even run through the checklist for you. About the only part of that it can't do is the visual inspection.

I think most of that is done automatically by computers in the case of airline jets. For single engine aircraft it's mostly DIY. Though with the jets the pilots get many hours of training on what to do if the various systems / computers go wrong.

Believe it or not, weight and balance calculations are not automatic even in the most advanced airliners. The airlines have algorithms they use which spit out numbers that are provided to the pilots, which they enter into the aircraft's computer. These numbers are vitally important, and on one flight I was on we had actually taken the runway but had to taxi back off because Delta was too slow at getting the numbers calculated.

Re: Passenger with “no idea how to fly” lands plane after pilot incapacitated

#472

Post by jaywalk »

nopcode wrote: post #456
jaywalk wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Garmin's is literally "oh shit the pilot passed out!" and an entirely inexperienced passenger can push a single button, ending up with the plane stopped on the nearest appropriate runway with the engine off. The autoland system in airliners requires a lot of setup by the pilots and continuous monitoring all the way down, plus working ILS (instrument landing system) equipment at the airport.

When flying private, my pilot told me: “just press this button when I have a stroke or something”. Almost 20 years ago. Ignorance is bliss I guess.

Yeah, I don't know what button he would have told you to push, but it definitely wouldn't have landed the plane. I don't think there were even automatic wing-leveling systems that far back.

Re: Passenger with “no idea how to fly” lands plane after pilot incapacitated

#473

Post by Macha »

GekkePrutser wrote: post #404
Macha wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're in a cessna, with one other person piloting. I think spending a significant time around aviation is a given, but I also wouldn't call that flying experience. It's not like being in the cabin in a commercial airliner, you'd see the pilot doing these things, and honestly as far as plane interfaces go, the Cessna is not bad. https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2F... Here's the instrument pa…

This was a Cessna 208, not a 172. Possibly glass cockpit and definitely turboprop. It would look more like this unless it has the glass cockpit of course: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ef/Cessna_2...

I believe elsewhere in this thread it was confirmed to have the older gauges, and I don't believe in this example it makes a meaningful difference in the readability of the primary instruments.

Re: Passenger with “no idea how to fly” lands plane after pilot incapacitated

#474

Post by ChicagoBoy11 »

whimsicalism wrote: post #172
civil_engineer wrote: post #13

Pilot here. I'm floored that a person with no flying experience could put this airplane down without a scratch. Air traffic controllers are not necessarily pilots, but luckily, this one was a pilot and certified instructor. ATC and passenger worked through a stressful situation to produce an amazing outcome. Bravo!

Listening to the audio of the conversation, it doesn't seem like the passenger has no flying experience... At minimum they must have spent significant time around aviation or be ex-military. e: From another comment on Reddit > Examples: > The passenger knew what button to press on the yoke to transmit to ATC. > The passenger knew aviation phraseology and phonetics “333 Lima Delta”. > The passenger knew where the alti…

As a pilot that was my first instinct as well... it just sounded like he knew his way around an airplane... fully concede he may not have been a pilot, but he was clearly way too familiar with the situation to be described as someone who had "no idea how to fly", imo.

Re: Passenger with “no idea how to fly” lands plane after pilot incapacitated

#475

Post by nevf1 »

mattmaroon wrote: post #77
civil_engineer wrote: post #13

Pilot here. I'm floored that a person with no flying experience could put this airplane down without a scratch. Air traffic controllers are not necessarily pilots, but luckily, this one was a pilot and certified instructor. ATC and passenger worked through a stressful situation to produce an amazing outcome. Bravo!

Idk, I’ve only flown 172s and have only landed a handful of times myself, but I think you could fairly easily talk someone through landing with an at least decent chance of survival if the weather was good. I mean this is not an experiment you want to run, of course. But landing in good conditions is pretty intuitive. You can tell if your angle to the runway is good or bad pretty easily and just adjust the throttle.…

It is fairly intuitive but my first few landings in a Cessna 150 were not pleasant at all. Granted it was a grass runway but I'd have been in serious trouble without my instructor. I'm sure the tower would have been able to give good guidance on pitch, angle, etc. but there's a lot of juggling going on when you're landing a plane, especially when you're inexperienced.

Re: Passenger with “no idea how to fly” lands plane after pilot incapacitated

#476

Post by ngcc_hk »

porknubbins wrote: post #470
e-clinton wrote: post #374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Flying is easy as long as weather is on your side. But still impressive for a total noob to land safely

Flying a single engine prop plane seems easy. Anyone who has played Flight Simulator has thought about this, I could probably land a cessna but not a commercial jet. What I’m sure I would get wrong is stuff on jets like multiple engine speeds, cowling settings etc.

Not sure I agree or not.

The question is she did not where she was, guess there is no gps map. And more importantly she has to fly the thing.

And in a commerical one you have gps and auto pilot. You can concentrate on those, as long as you have radio. Metuor has a video which is basically just use radio. You basically do not fly the plane. In fact the basic advice is not touched the yoke.

The responsibility is much higher of course.

Re: Passenger with “no idea how to fly” lands plane after pilot incapacitated

#477

Post by NelsonMinar »

aasasd wrote: post #351
NelsonMinar wrote: post #57

Video of the landing, it's very nicely done. https://twitter.com/aviationbrk/status/1524410837414391809

To my noob eye, it seems that the person did absolutely no pitching to shave off the speed. That's the hard part, in my very limited experience with simulators. Dunno if this plane does usually need pitching, but I guess they were very lucky to have enough of the runway.

Not so much lucky as planned; they were sent to PBI because it had a long runway. Also you don't pitch to reduce speed, you reduce power to reduce speed. Then pitch up to maintain glide slope and altitude. That's how you land if you have a feel for it but for someone inexperienced there's the risk they too slow, pitch too far up, and stall. Better to come in a little fast if you have the runway.

Re: Passenger with “no idea how to fly” lands plane after pilot incapacitated

#478

Post by 93po »

gfosco wrote: post #298
93po wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Man that website is full of awful, awful content edit: lmao you're the CTO. cool site bro

Different perspectives... I don't see anything awful there.

I know you don't

Re: Passenger with “no idea how to fly” lands plane after pilot incapacitated

#479

Post by Sylveste »

ngcc_hk wrote: post #476
porknubbins wrote: post #470

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Flying a single engine prop plane seems easy. Anyone who has played Flight Simulator has thought about this, I could probably land a cessna but not a commercial jet. What I’m sure I would get wrong is stuff on jets like multiple engine speeds, cowling settings etc.

Not sure I agree or not. The question is she did not where she was, guess there is no gps map. And more importantly she has to fly the thing. And in a commerical one you have gps and auto pilot. You can concentrate on those, as long as you have radio. Metuor has a video which is basically just use radio. You basically do not fly the plane. In fact the basic advice is not touched the yoke. The responsibility is much h…

>The question is she did not where she was, guess there is no gps map. And more importantly she has to fly the thing.

I would imagine she had a smartphone. Gmaps/Amaps is no match for Skydemon but it's a million times better than nothing.

Re: Passenger with “no idea how to fly” lands plane after pilot incapacitated

#480

Post by InitialLastName »

mbreese wrote: post #375
InitialLastName wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In the event of a pileup, it doesn’t really matter how much distance you’ve left. For legal liability, that might be true. In reality, if you've left yourself a safe amount of distance, you have more opportunity to react to events in front of you in such a way that you minimize damage and loss of life (thus mattering).

If you’ve left enough room, you’re not part of the pile up. Kind of by definition…

Even if you still crash, the extra second of braking time can take off ~10-15 mph [0], which at 60 mph V(t=0) is ~40% of the energy that would otherwise dissipate into your car and the cars you hit.

[0] https://copradar.com/chapts/references/acceleration.html

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