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Passenger with “no idea how to fly” lands plane after pilot incapacitated

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Re: Passenger with “no idea how to fly” lands plane after pilot incapacitated

#461

Post by mike978 »

whimsicalism wrote: post #172
civil_engineer wrote: post #13

Pilot here. I'm floored that a person with no flying experience could put this airplane down without a scratch. Air traffic controllers are not necessarily pilots, but luckily, this one was a pilot and certified instructor. ATC and passenger worked through a stressful situation to produce an amazing outcome. Bravo!

Listening to the audio of the conversation, it doesn't seem like the passenger has no flying experience... At minimum they must have spent significant time around aviation or be ex-military. e: From another comment on Reddit > Examples: > The passenger knew what button to press on the yoke to transmit to ATC. > The passenger knew aviation phraseology and phonetics “333 Lima Delta”. > The passenger knew where the alti…

No post body was provided.

Re: Passenger with “no idea how to fly” lands plane after pilot incapacitated

#462

Post by eternityforest »

eru wrote: post #436
Terry_Roll wrote: post #398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but the guy who landed the plane obviously holds up well in stressful situations Thats what you need a cool head when everyone else is losing theirs. Not only that if the pilot had any sense he would give any passenger in the front a TLDR for emergencies just as a common courtesy. TBH I'm surprised the various Aviation Authorities have not mandated some sort of TLDR emergency/safety guide for small planes and their…

> TBH I'm surprised the various Aviation Authorities have not mandated some sort of TLDR emergency/safety guide for small planes and their passengers, unless of course they dont really care if one drops out of the sky killing everyone!?! Having an untrained passenger is no worse than flying solo. The latter is clearly allowed, and should probably stay allowed?

Banning solo flight would make a lot of people unhappy. Having a passenger emergency checklist and explaining where the radio is doesn't sound like an undue burden if it actually makes a difference.

It would be an opportunistic thing that only applies when it's near zero cost.

Re: Passenger with “no idea how to fly” lands plane after pilot incapacitated

#463

Post by t0mas88 »

Nextgrid wrote: post #37
asdfman123 wrote: post #22

I bet this was a guy raised on video games. I was about to make a joke about it but I'm actually serious. Once I, a former Houstonian with no experience driving on ice, was driving through the snowy mountains and lost control of my car. Instead of panicking, my video-game-induced laser focus kicked in and I calmly piloted the car until the wheels gained traction and I could park the car on the side of the road. But l…

Video game experience is absolutely better than no experience. On small general aviation planes, the feature set is quite minimal and most simulators will replicate all of it faithfully enough, so the only remaining thing is the “feel” of the plane which you can hopefully experience a bit during flight before landing. In contrast, a big passenger jet has insane amounts of different systems that need to be configured…

> but even a complete simulator such as the one used for pilot training won’t be enough to actually learn all those systems - that’s why it takes years of training.

Pilot here, the simulator is absolutely good enough. It's not uncommon for the first time landing a real jet after sim training to be on a normal passenger flight, just with a training captain next to you.

Learning systems takes about two weeks and is done in a classroom + computer based training (usually an ipad app).

What takes "years" in the US is the requirement to first fly 1500 hours in a small single engine plane before you get to the airlines. This requirement does not exist in Europe, here you can go to that simulator + classroom training right after getting your commercial license.

Re: Passenger with “no idea how to fly” lands plane after pilot incapacitated

#464

Post by trollied »

travisgriggs wrote: post #340
whimsicalism wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Listening to the audio of the conversation, it doesn't seem like the passenger has no flying experience... At minimum they must have spent significant time around aviation or be ex-military. e: From another comment on Reddit > Examples: > The passenger knew what button to press on the yoke to transmit to ATC. > The passenger knew aviation phraseology and phonetics “333 Lima Delta”. > The passenger knew where the alti…

Got my PPL 2 years ago (almost), and love taking people for rides to various nearby destinations. It's my "Sunday Drive" and a chance to share with others. These questions often get answered pretty quickly. We get talking on our headsets, now I'm about to taxi, and so I make a call. Shortly there after, when I'm talking to my passenger, there's a nervous 'Can other people hear me??' 'Nope, I push this button right he…

VASAviation have posted the full ATC: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MDwzNtDMlA

Unfortunately, the instructor-led talkdown was done via a phone call.

Re: Passenger with “no idea how to fly” lands plane after pilot incapacitated

#465

Post by dredmorbius »

alfalfasprout wrote: post #295
civil_engineer wrote: post #13

Pilot here. I'm floored that a person with no flying experience could put this airplane down without a scratch. Air traffic controllers are not necessarily pilots, but luckily, this one was a pilot and certified instructor. ATC and passenger worked through a stressful situation to produce an amazing outcome. Bravo!

I'm not overly surprised for two reasons: 1) This was a single engine plane w/out constant speed prop. So really the only things to worry about would be throttle, flight controls (maybe trim), and mixture. 2) Looks like it was a steam gauge plane so luckily the student didn't have to learn a fugly glass panel UI 3) The stall speed on these planes is pretty low, so ATC probably had them do a pattern to get used to the…

Since you mention landing hot --- from the landing video, my take is that the approach was fast, and that the pilot used up a lot of runway before making actual ground contact.

That said, there was plenty of runway available, and on touchdown, the excess speed (if any) was easily compensated for.

The passenger-pilot clearly had general aviation familiarity, and kept a cool head. Both of which help immensely.

(My own flight experience: general understanding of flight controls and theory, pax in a handful of small-plane flights, RH seat. An hour or so of straight-and-level flying. A bit of sim. No formal training.)

Re: Passenger with “no idea how to fly” lands plane after pilot incapacitated

#466

Post by dredmorbius »

tialaramex wrote: post #140
travisjungroth wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re not going point to point a foot above the surface unless you’re over water (calm seas at that). Soviets built a concept plane that did just this, though. Airplanes are more efficient near the ground than a little bit away, but not as efficient as at normal cruising altitudes.

You're probably thinking of Ground Effect Vehicles (sometimes Ekranoplans). The Russians built lots, not just as a concept, if you own a huge lake (not an ocean) they're somewhat practical for crossing it quickly. The Americans and Canadians (who also own some large lakes) have likewise built some of these. The Ground Effect, as its name suggests, only exists near the ground, so in one sense you're "flying" but if th…

I'd thought that there were only a few prototype Erkanoplans built, though it seems there actually was an operational fleet.

There's a particular larger model intended for defence purposes which saw only a single prototype, now abandoned.

The Soviet Navy ordered 120 Orlyonok-class ekranoplans, but this figure was later reduced to fewer than 30 vessels, with planned deployment mainly in the Black Sea and Baltic Sea fleets.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground-effect_vehicle#Soviet_U...

There is one specific prototype which has seen some attention (article and videos), the so-called "Caspian Sea Monster":

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caspian_Sea_Monster

On HN a couple of years back:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24857096

For water use, hovercraft tend to be more flexible. They still experience issues in rough water, and though they can cross flat unimproved terrain (beaches, swamps, snow, meadows), they perform quite poorly on slopes, particularly laterally, and generally have poor lateral stability, notably with high winds.

Hydrofoils accomplish much the same capability on water. Tracked vehicles on land. Not having to support your mass dynamically also helps. That said, hovercraft remain useful for military marine beach landings. And eels.

Re: Passenger with “no idea how to fly” lands plane after pilot incapacitated

#467

Post by AndrewThrowaway »

verst wrote: post #322
kenrik wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pilot here: It could help with some familiarity but generally in MSFS you can get away with ignoring the gauges and just mess around. The tutorial might gloss over some of it. Having an unbelievable number of hours in MSFS when I was a kid ... landing a real plane is considerably harder and a ton of instruction time is just focused on getting you to land reliably. I finished my PPL in just over 40hrs which is close t…

Also pilot here (C172 G1000): I personally find landing a plane IRL easier than in MSFS. Much easier when I am able to feel resistance on the yoke, feel shifts in wind and gravity etc. All the MSFS controls are so extremely touchy. Though I agree you need 6-10 hours to get decent at landings :)

I tried MSFS in VR and it was also much easier because you are somehow much more aware of the surroundings (maybe because you move "camera" around the cockpit so much more). In VR I don't get lost so easily and always have an idea where the landing strip is.

Re: Passenger with “no idea how to fly” lands plane after pilot incapacitated

#468

Post by tim333 »

Johnny555 wrote: post #388
pilot7378535 wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Flying cars" made sense to me until I started flying. Now I think "driving airplanes" is the more appropriate phrase for what might be in the realm of possibility. For example: here's how you'd prepare to visit distant relatives with each vehicle: Car: load up however much weight you want, turn the keys and start driving. Low on gas? Just turn off at the next exit. Weather looks bad? Just drive slowly and carefully…

Couldn't most of that be done by computer? Weight sensors in the wheels can determine weight and balance, the computer can evaluate the weather and plot the course taking into account all of the factors you noted, including refueling stops and emergency airfields, and it can even run through the checklist for you. About the only part of that it can't do is the visual inspection.

I think most of that is done automatically by computers in the case of airline jets. For single engine aircraft it's mostly DIY. Though with the jets the pilots get many hours of training on what to do if the various systems / computers go wrong.

Re: Passenger with “no idea how to fly” lands plane after pilot incapacitated

#469

Post by verelo »

to1y wrote: post #408
verelo wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure if you've ever seen the POH for a C172, but it is thick. Example: https://www.montereynavyflyingclub.org/Other%20Docs/Cessna-1... Personally, ATC is your best bet here. I'd say a lot of people who have ever flown a flight simulator can get the plan low and slow enough to not cause death upon impact. I would anticipate a bumpy landing, some injury and a lost plane...so this outcome is pretty impressive imo.

73 pages isnt that bad, I was thinking 500pg+ for some reason. Guess simplicity is paramount.

Yeah, it’s just dense. Lots of great info in these things but you should know most of it from memory or only need it on the ground. It’s a legal requirement to carry in the plane but i don’t think I’ve ever needed one while in the air…yet

Re: Passenger with “no idea how to fly” lands plane after pilot incapacitated

#470

Post by porknubbins »

e-clinton wrote: post #374
efitz wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have 30 minutes and 2 touch-and-go’s in my log book. I suck at Microsoft Flight Simulator. In 30 minutes of the instructor sitting next to me, I successfully landed and took off in a Cessna 172, learned to trim power, elevators and flaps, learned how to transmit and how to “squawk ident”, and what channel to use in emergencies (1202 IIRC). Operating the airplane was very straightforward. Without the instructor or s…

Flying is easy as long as weather is on your side. But still impressive for a total noob to land safely

Flying a single engine prop plane seems easy. Anyone who has played Flight Simulator has thought about this, I could probably land a cessna but not a commercial jet. What I’m sure I would get wrong is stuff on jets like multiple engine speeds, cowling settings etc.
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