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Finland will seek NATO membership immediately

presidentti.fi

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Re: Finland will seek NATO membership immediately

#401
post #381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Croat president has publicly said he will veto new members if the status of the Croat minority in Bosnia and Herzegovina is not improved legally. https://www.euractiv.com/section/politics/short_news/croat-p...

The Croatian president is stupid (as is the Prime Minister, fwiw), with little actual power, and spewing things left and right to make himself more relevant. Thankfully, Croatia doesn't have any real influence in NATO so nobody will be obliged to listen to that stupidity. Source: I live in Croatia.

In complete agreement with above; same source. Ever since he became a president, he's been spewing crap everywhere, and daily spats with/at prime minister (who's a special kind of "tool" , of course) or whoever would be the flavour of the day, are essentially "his normal" now.

Re: Finland will seek NATO membership immediately

#402
post #357
post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in Eastern Europe, its why I have a balanced view of the situation. There are as many states in this region who want to ally against NATO because of its war crimes and crimes against humanity - however I wager those states are not on your radar since you clearly live inside the media bubble created for you by the literal makers of bombs to be dropped by NATO forces in future wars .

I guess that would be Serbia. But it is a bit pointless to have an alliance with one country.

Belarus also, but they are de facto Russian vassal state at this point.

Re: Finland will seek NATO membership immediately

#403
post #209
post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Turkey is a NATO member, but it didn't join the international sanctions.

They're certainly not Russia-aligned. They've never liked each other, and Turkey has been crucial in strengthening Ukraine's defense with their Bayraktars.

They are not aligned, but they deal with the Ukraine conflict in a very pragmatic way. On the one side they are delivering drones to Ukraine, which have proven to be one of the more effective weapons agains the Russian army, on the other hand they will accept Russian tourists into the country this summer.

IMHO Erdogan still owes Putin a favor for being tipped off on the 2016 Turkish coup d'état attempt.

Re: Finland will seek NATO membership immediately

#405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Russia has argued that having NATO on its borders is a threat. Talk about missiles within range of Moscow and so on. Obviously these comments make no sense. But Russian domestic politics is always using a narrative of being a victim and having risk of being invaded. The Second World War doesn’t exist in Russian storytelling. The great patriotic war on the other hand, conveniently started in the 40s. The Finnish borde…

NATO is a devensive alliance. It is no threat for a peaceful Russia at all. All else is propaganda. A really democratic Russia may even join NATO some day. (As Western Germany did ten years after the Nazis.)

> NATO is a devensive alliance.

I think Serbs may disagree on that. In the end, NATO is the US and it's dependent vassal states. With neighbors like these, I can sympathize with Russia not being too comfortable.

Re: Finland will seek NATO membership immediately

#406
post #9

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The Finnish political system was infiltrated by Russian assets (willing or just useful fools) for decades [0]. Luckily this has abated in the last decades. The people have deep suspicion of the Russian state but no particular animosity towards russian people in general. Most finns, especially the young generations, feel most affinity towards west in every sense. The Finnish language is Finno-Ugric and unrelated to sl…

> The Finnish political system was infiltrated by Russian assets (willing or just useful fools) for decades [0] I just read the whole [0] reference, and I could not find anything related to your claim. Can you give specific examples ? Or can you explain how the article supports your claim ?

It's complex and what I write here is open for argumentations.

Briefly put, insidious interactions over decades groomed certain individuals in power to promote agendas pleasing to Moscow and to stop from forwarding agendas that would have been displeasing. Who, exactly? Well, that's the thing - we don't know but can only guess - but this effect was quite visible in Finland for decades. I know this sounds a bit nutty without more context so let me try to provide it.

I am using the term "asset" in the widest possible interpretations - people acting to benefit the agenda of Moscow.

Finlandization included the necessity to get stamp of approval on all foreign policy from Moscow. The journalistic system basically recycled what USSR broadcasted on foreign events up to late 1980's.

Politicians had to get approval from the USSR embassy. How this undermines democracy should be obvious - you can have votes, but it does not matter if big brother vetoes you.

Hence you don't need to explicitly enact nefarious schemes given to you by Kremlin - you simply do not put forward agendas you guess would be displeasing to the Moscow masters. And you things you guess would please them. In this atmosphere the subtlest of hints suffice to direct policy.

Over decades, this creates a psychology of implicit submission - similar to what happens in totalitarian countries in press self-censoring and so fort. You start to guess from weak signals what the dominating party wants and impose this control. You promote those that forward your pro Moscow agenda. You chastise those too pro-western. Sometimes you promote your protege to Moscow as a steady hand and so on.

There are visible signals of this and I can enumerate few:

0)

Finland had one person as president, Urho Kekkonen for 26 years

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urho_Kekkonen

His reign was linked to very good relations with Moscow. He probably played both sides, but was in fact many ways enacting policies that were pleasing to Moscow. In the 50's this probably helped to stop explicit invasion.

1)

For example, ex. prime minister Esko Aho was in the board of Sperbank https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esko_Aho#Banks

2)

The president of Finland Tarja Halonen supported the ratification of the Ottawa treaty banning all use of landmines in Finland in 2011. This was promoted as a benevolent act by many parties. Given that Russia had invaded Geoergia 2008 this can be in retrospect considered suicidally deluded or treasonous position.

The latter one is perhaps the most egregious example of the actions of parties one would at bare minimum describe as "usefull fools". The only party that would ever benefit from Finland banning landmines is Moscow.

3)

Finland was planning a new nuclear plant starting from 2010. The tendering was won by Rosatom in circumstances that implied high favoritism toward the Russian state actor.

In 2014 after Russia invaded Crimea several municipalities pooled in extra capital to the process.

Luckily this plant project has been stopped and will never be built.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanhikivi_Nuclear_Power_Plant

Things like this could go on and on. But the whole point of clandestine subversion is that it's clandestine and KGB archives are probably sadly not available for academic study for decades if ever.

Re: Finland will seek NATO membership immediately

#407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't need NATO because you are already a member. Ask Ukrainian civilians whether they would prefer to be part of NATO right now.

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Russia under Putin didn't need an excuse.

Re: Finland will seek NATO membership immediately

#408
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This more or less seals Finland applying for NATO membership. However, adding new members requires unanimous consent from all existing members, so it's not guaranteed to be smooth sailing. Russia is also obviously deeply unhappy about this and will do its best to disrupt the process via direct and indirect pressure.

>However, adding new members requires unanimous consent from all existing members, so it's not guaranteed to be smooth sailing. I highly doubt that any of NATO's members will veto an application from Finland (or Sweden).

No post body was provided.

Re: Finland will seek NATO membership immediately

#409

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never seen or heard anyone complain about Russia banning American companies.

you sure? https://www.theverge.com/2022/3/4/22960739/russia-internet-b... "Russia says it's blocking Facebook in alarming new censorship push" blocking facebook is censorship but blocking RT is defending free speech? nice

Is the implication that Facebook is also a propaganda outlet? That is sort of funny: RT and Facebook considered similar entities

Re: Finland will seek NATO membership immediately

#410
post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

Boy I have good news for you! If you are worried of the finance of Finland joining NATO - This will be a strategic partnership, not aid. It's a "good deal" for both sides. Finland will be an asset for NATO, not a cost. We already have a credible NATO compatible military. We just don't have nukes, and in wartime materiel replenishment would be a problem. https://www.ft.com/content/e85825af-5172-44c4-9662-f7ceca40e...…

Where did you find the money?

64 F-35 at my calculations comes at approximately 5 Billion dollars, this is excluding spare parts and training. Finland military complete spending/defense budget for 2019 was $3.97B.

Edit: Actually it seems my calculations where off by 50%. This will cost you 10 Billion...

"Audit clears Finnish F-35 buy amid rising spending on pandemic, Ukraine"

https://www.defensenews.com/global/europe/2022/03/28/audit-c...

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