Earlier quoted context omitted.
This more or less seals Finland applying for NATO membership. However, adding new members requires unanimous consent from all existing members, so it's not guaranteed to be smooth sailing. Russia is also obviously deeply unhappy about this and will do its best to disrupt the process via direct and indirect pressure.
How can Russia pressure and disrupt the process when NATO members are the ones most afraid of Putin? Finland's doing this only because of Russia's actions. I can't imagine anybody vetoing Finland's membership. In fact, the more the merrier^Hstronger.
Finland will seek NATO membership immediately
101–110 of 1001 posts
Re: Finland will seek NATO membership immediately
#102Earlier quoted context omitted.
i am not an american, nor russian. i come from a third world country far from this drama. to me, "russian propaganda" is the same as "american propaganda" which demonizes the other and calls their version as the "ultimate truth". don't americans/west see their media/actions as what it is, propaganda aganinst russia? blocking RT across america/EU is seen as protecting free speech but god forbid if russia reciprocates…
Now, your comment format follows a pretty typical pattern utilized by paid Russian trolls, so I'm likely wasting my time here. But anyway: There is a slight difference between de-platforming Russian propaganda channels in the West, and Russia jailing anybody speaking about the war in any other terms than those approved by Kremlin.
It's worth considering that the former is probably more effective, and certainly makes fewer people upset.
Re: Finland will seek NATO membership immediately
#103Re: Finland will seek NATO membership immediately
#104Earlier quoted context omitted.
i am not an american, nor russian. i come from a third world country far from this drama. to me, "russian propaganda" is the same as "american propaganda" which demonizes the other and calls their version as the "ultimate truth". don't americans/west see their media/actions as what it is, propaganda aganinst russia? blocking RT across america/EU is seen as protecting free speech but god forbid if russia reciprocates…
Now, your comment format follows a pretty typical pattern utilized by paid Russian trolls, so I'm likely wasting my time here. But anyway: There is a slight difference between de-platforming Russian propaganda channels in the West, and Russia jailing anybody speaking about the war in any other terms than those approved by Kremlin.
manning/assange anyone? oh they are terrorists right? for giving sensitive information to enemies but russian or chinese defectors are given "protection" because they do the same for america but if russia/china goes after them, well..... you know
Re: Finland will seek NATO membership immediately
#105Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's a completely different league of dislike. It's not like American TV shows aren't playing on Finish TV, or cinema hardly plays Hollywood movies. If there was a true dislike, it should affect media consumption.
People consume what's available, and what's available is US media. Nobody in the west can catch up to the US in media production because the US is the biggest producer of English language media. English language media has the largest market in the west because English is spoken by nearly everyone as a second language, and US media reinforces this English language status, since people pick up the language due to its a…
Re: Finland will seek NATO membership immediately
#106Earlier quoted context omitted.
>However, adding new members requires unanimous consent from all existing members, so it's not guaranteed to be smooth sailing. I highly doubt that any of NATO's members will veto an application from Finland (or Sweden).
How about Hungary and it's seemingly pro-Russian leader, Orban? They could vote against.
Re: Finland will seek NATO membership immediately
#107Earlier quoted context omitted.
Maybe it was just friendliness towards Russian people? This war is entirely political. Most Russians don't seem to want to invade other countries.
> Most Russians don't seem to want to invade other countries. What are you basing this on? https://www.levada.ru/en/ratings/ This seems to show strong support for the Russian government and this analysis seems to suggest that few Russians are concerned about Russians crimes and as many as half are very supportive of horrific violence against people they see as nonhuman. https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/14…
Russians now feel as though they're under attack by the West with an ends of destroying them not only economically and politically but also culturally. That is going to send support soaring with the perceived threat there is orders of magnitude greater than something like Bin Laden. So you're not going to be able to get level-headed responses until [likely many] years after this ends - similar to how if you polled the average American circa 2001 you'd get dramatically different views on the actions we took than you would if you asked them a decade later, even beyond the countless discoveries outside the "fog of war".
This is one reason I also think our ongoing response is not the right path forward for any outcome other than escalation. The more we arbitrarily attack anything "Russian", the more we frame ourselves not as an enemy of the war but as an enemy of the Russian people and even the Russian culture. And far from achieving a de-escalation, this just seems it will inevitably march us that much closer to WW3.
Re: Finland will seek NATO membership immediately
#108Earlier quoted context omitted.
This more or less seals Finland applying for NATO membership. However, adding new members requires unanimous consent from all existing members, so it's not guaranteed to be smooth sailing. Russia is also obviously deeply unhappy about this and will do its best to disrupt the process via direct and indirect pressure.
How can Russia pressure and disrupt the process when NATO members are the ones most afraid of Putin? Finland's doing this only because of Russia's actions. I can't imagine anybody vetoing Finland's membership. In fact, the more the merrier^Hstronger.
Either they stop this now or it's all over anyway. This is reckless - we need to start a path of de-escalation - give Putin an offramp. Get to back to calm waters.
Then let diplomats do their little dances until there is a hopefully more reasonable people in power on both sides.
Nobody wants war.
Re: Finland will seek NATO membership immediately
#109Re: Finland will seek NATO membership immediately
#110Earlier quoted context omitted.
Russia has argued that having NATO on its borders is a threat. Talk about missiles within range of Moscow and so on. Obviously these comments make no sense. But Russian domestic politics is always using a narrative of being a victim and having risk of being invaded. The Second World War doesn’t exist in Russian storytelling. The great patriotic war on the other hand, conveniently started in the 40s. The Finnish borde…
> Talk about missiles within range of Moscow and so on. Obviously these comments make no sense. Why doesn't it make sense? I'm not for Russia nor for NATO, but what is the purpose of the alliance if not against Russia as a remnant of the cold war? Wasn't the same kind of reasoning used by the USA for Cuba resulting in its ~blockade~ "quarantine" and almost war/invasion? It seems to me there's a certain rhetoric meant…
2) Cuba was "allowed" to stay in the Eastern block (but not to host nuclear weapons). Ukraine was not "allowed" to join NATO, by comparison
3) Russia has nuclear/nuclear capable weapons inside NATO (Kaliningrad), not the other way around. EDIT: Kaliningrad is a Russian exclave surrounded by NATO members + bordered by the Baltic