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Finland will seek NATO membership immediately

presidentti.fi

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Re: Finland will seek NATO membership immediately

#61

Post by phoe-krk »

ssl232 wrote: post #52

Usual caveats that I'm not a diplomat, don't have all the facts, etc etc., but this doesn't seem like a rational move for Finland or NATO. The UK just yesterday agreed to protect Finland in the event of an attack, and the UK's involvement would likely bring in many other NATO powers anyway, so arguably they're getting protection they'd otherwise have to pay for for free. And actually, officially joining NATO will hav…

> The former USSR states in Eastern Europe have until now (or until the early 2000s NATO expansion at least) served as a half-decent buffer zone between the West and Russia, and we've had peace.

I think you should go and tell Ukrainian people that their country is a buffer zone meant to act as a burnt ground, and they are not allowed to work towards joining the alliances and economic systems that they want to join in order to better their livelihoods and stop facing the former-USSR-level of poverty. Same stuff with regards to the Finnish and Swedish people and their current will to join NATO in order to defend against an unpredictable old man with a grandiose idea of reviving the old USSR.

Believe me, going there and speaking directly will work better than commenting on HN.

EDIT: yes, I downvoted, and here's my share of a comment.

Re: Finland will seek NATO membership immediately

#62

Post by benjymo »

sph wrote: post #47
thematrixturtle wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This more or less seals Finland applying for NATO membership. However, adding new members requires unanimous consent from all existing members, so it's not guaranteed to be smooth sailing. Russia is also obviously deeply unhappy about this and will do its best to disrupt the process via direct and indirect pressure.

How can Russia pressure and disrupt the process when NATO members are the ones most afraid of Putin? Finland's doing this only because of Russia's actions. I can't imagine anybody vetoing Finland's membership. In fact, the more the merrier^Hstronger.

Hungary would be the only I can think of that might veto but they already said they wouldn't.

Re: Finland will seek NATO membership immediately

#63

Post by spaniard89277 »

2Gkashmiri wrote: post #46
golergka wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So what plan, exactly? That's a question on everyone's mind about this whole invasion. I guess I should have said “idiotic justification as portrayed by Russian propaganda” instead of “plan”.

i am not an american, nor russian. i come from a third world country far from this drama. to me, "russian propaganda" is the same as "american propaganda" which demonizes the other and calls their version as the "ultimate truth". don't americans/west see their media/actions as what it is, propaganda aganinst russia? blocking RT across america/EU is seen as protecting free speech but god forbid if russia reciprocates…

I can see it (am spaniard), and there's definitely propaganda. But ultimately it was Russia who invaded Ucraine and the reasons provided are very vague, at best.

The Speech Putin did had some etnonationalism BS and claims of defending the land agains the threat of NATO. In most bordering NATO countries what you have is SAMs (anti-air missiles), and honestly pretty much any NATO country could claim that they feel threatened by Russian nukes.

And there's apprently plenty of gas just about the Dombass region and to the west of Crimea, such a coincidence.

So yeah, propaganda all around, but if you cut through it there isn't much left for russian sympathy.

Re: Finland will seek NATO membership immediately

#64

Post by Gravityloss »

thinkingemote wrote: post #4

Has Finland significant pro-Russian politicians? Or at least pro before February 2022? I visited there a while ago and there was a feel of Russian friendliness at the least with significant independence on the streets. But that's just my feelings and I wasn't paying attention back then.

There is this one person. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ano_Turtiainen

Not a lot of material about him written in English though. But he is a member of parliament and has been openly pro Russia recently. He was expelled from his party already earlier and now runs his own party. I don't think people take him seriously.

Re: Finland will seek NATO membership immediately

#65

Post by sph »

Oreols wrote: post #44
michaelmrose wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most Russians don't seem to want to invade other countries. What are you basing this on? https://www.levada.ru/en/ratings/ This seems to show strong support for the Russian government and this analysis seems to suggest that few Russians are concerned about Russians crimes and as many as half are very supportive of horrific violence against people they see as nonhuman. https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/14…

Those are polls in a fascist state. People will say what they think they need to say to stay safe. But you're not wrong, lots of people just went full nazi

Can we please learn the difference between fascism, nationalism and nazism?

Putin nor his supporters haven't gone full nazi. Full fascist, perhaps. Nationalist, definitely.

He used the "denazify Ukraine" slogan when Zelenskyy is actually Jewish not because of deep seated racial or religious motivations, but just to get more of the populace to buy his belligerent cause. Putin just cares about Crimea, Sevastopol, and the strategic importance of the Black Sea (oil and military).

Re: Finland will seek NATO membership immediately

#66

Post by tovej »

wodenokoto wrote: post #53
rzmmm wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Most finns, especially the young generations, feel most affinity towards west in every sense. It's true that most finns feel affinity towards the west, but same can't be said about the USA. Especially the younger generation sees both Russia and US with somewhat strong dislike.

It's a completely different league of dislike. It's not like American TV shows aren't playing on Finish TV, or cinema hardly plays Hollywood movies. If there was a true dislike, it should affect media consumption.

People consume what's available, and what's available is US media.

Nobody in the west can catch up to the US in media production because the US is the biggest producer of English language media. English language media has the largest market in the west because English is spoken by nearly everyone as a second language, and US media reinforces this English language status, since people pick up the language due to its availability.

tldr: despite watching Friends on Netflix, many people still think the US is a rotten dirty capitalist hellhole.

Re: Finland will seek NATO membership immediately

#67

Post by bergie »

2Gkashmiri wrote: post #46
golergka wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So what plan, exactly? That's a question on everyone's mind about this whole invasion. I guess I should have said “idiotic justification as portrayed by Russian propaganda” instead of “plan”.

i am not an american, nor russian. i come from a third world country far from this drama. to me, "russian propaganda" is the same as "american propaganda" which demonizes the other and calls their version as the "ultimate truth". don't americans/west see their media/actions as what it is, propaganda aganinst russia? blocking RT across america/EU is seen as protecting free speech but god forbid if russia reciprocates…

Now, your comment format follows a pretty typical pattern utilized by paid Russian trolls, so I'm likely wasting my time here. But anyway:

There is a slight difference between de-platforming Russian propaganda channels in the West, and Russia jailing anybody speaking about the war in any other terms than those approved by Kremlin.

Re: Finland will seek NATO membership immediately

#68

Post by exar0815 »

ssl232 wrote: post #52

Usual caveats that I'm not a diplomat, don't have all the facts, etc etc., but this doesn't seem like a rational move for Finland or NATO. The UK just yesterday agreed to protect Finland in the event of an attack, and the UK's involvement would likely bring in many other NATO powers anyway, so arguably they're getting protection they'd otherwise have to pay for for free. And actually, officially joining NATO will hav…

It's quite simple - the last time the world woved without a binding contract to protect Finland from Russia, Finland had to cede large parts of their country in the end. And this is still very present in the minds of most finns, despite it being in the 1940s

Re: Finland will seek NATO membership immediately

#69

Post by M2Ys4U »

thematrixturtle wrote: post #18
fsloth wrote: post #2

There was some discussion on plausible NATO membership of Finland and Sweden. At that point the disucssion was based on guestimates from media. But now it's official. This is not the NATO membership application, but a statement from the political leadership in Finland that they support and suggest parliament proceeds with the application process with maximum urgency. The President and Prime Minister of Finland have p…

This more or less seals Finland applying for NATO membership. However, adding new members requires unanimous consent from all existing members, so it's not guaranteed to be smooth sailing. Russia is also obviously deeply unhappy about this and will do its best to disrupt the process via direct and indirect pressure.

>However, adding new members requires unanimous consent from all existing members, so it's not guaranteed to be smooth sailing.

I highly doubt that any of NATO's members will veto an application from Finland (or Sweden).

Re: Finland will seek NATO membership immediately

#70

Post by klausjensen »

NicoJuicy wrote: post #45
thematrixturtle wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This more or less seals Finland applying for NATO membership. However, adding new members requires unanimous consent from all existing members, so it's not guaranteed to be smooth sailing. Russia is also obviously deeply unhappy about this and will do its best to disrupt the process via direct and indirect pressure.

I think Germany said they will be under protection from NATO as soon as they start the procedure.

UK has also made written guarantees to protect Finland (and Sweden) during the application process.

In practical reality, if Russia were to attack Finland or Sweden now, the answer from NATO would be pretty much the same as if they were already members.

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