Finland will seek NATO membership immediately • Hacker News Board

Re: Finland will seek NATO membership immediately

#321

Post by [deleted] » Thu, May 12, 2022, 10:46 AM UTC

M2Ys4U wrote: post #69

thematrixturtle wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This more or less seals Finland applying for NATO membership. However, adding new members requires unanimous consent from all existing members, so it's not guaranteed to be smooth sailing. Russia is also obviously deeply unhappy about this and will do its best to disrupt the process via direct and indirect pressure.

>However, adding new members requires unanimous consent from all existing members, so it's not guaranteed to be smooth sailing. I highly doubt that any of NATO's members will veto an application from Finland (or Sweden).

[deleted]

Re: Finland will seek NATO membership immediately

#322

Post by logifail » Thu, May 12, 2022, 10:47 AM UTC

fsloth wrote: post #197

logifail wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If I were living in Finland, I'd feel safer (against external aggression) if the country was in NATO than if it wasn't Finland might feel safer once they're in NATO. The rest of NATO (and non-NATO states in Western Europe), perhaps not quite so much. Surely the risk of NATO being involved in any conflict only increases as NATO grows?

"Surely the risk of NATO being involved in any conflict only increases as NATO grows?" No, it diminishes. NATO is a defensive alliance. The more members it has with credible military spending (which Finland has) the higher the cost for Russia to invade.

> No, it diminishes. NATO is a defensive alliance. The more members it has [..]

A similar line of argument about alliances and treaties preventing war was used before the First World War. We all know how that ended.

Re: Finland will seek NATO membership immediately

#323

Post by parenthesis » Thu, May 12, 2022, 10:47 AM UTC

The stronger Russia tries to blow the cloak of NATO away from its borders, the tighter its neighbours will seek wrap themselves in NATO.

(Aesop's fable of The North Wind and the Sun.)

Re: Finland will seek NATO membership immediately

#324

Post by desproges » Thu, May 12, 2022, 10:47 AM UTC

sorenjan wrote: post #276

bitL wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If there is a nuclear war because of this mess in the near future, then we will all see how did this work out for everyone on this planet. If you pressure a weakened nuclear power into a corner, what will they have left? Western countries operate under a false assumption that oligarchs/rich call the shots in Russia while it's the power/security forces who do, keeping oligarchs on a short leash. From that point of vie…

Nobody is pressuring Russia, that's Russian propaganda. They want to paint themselves as attacked and surrounded, but it's them attacking sovereign neighbors and trying to expand beyond their borders. Who would have any interest in invading Russia? China attacking from the east would probably make more sense than NATO attacking from the west, but I've never heard anyone suggesting that as a realistic event.

No post body was provided.

Re: Finland will seek NATO membership immediately

#325

Post by ta123456789 » Thu, May 12, 2022, 10:47 AM UTC

The polls in Finland showing > 50% support at the start of the war, and now even > 70% support for NATO. So this has seemed inevitable for almost two months. Any other choice would have been political suicide for the leading party SDP, and probably would have resulted in a new election. Whether it is the right choice I am not yet convinced, but basically it is now or never if Finland wants to join. Later it would be impossible to join.

Re: Finland will seek NATO membership immediately

#326

Post by rodgerd » Thu, May 12, 2022, 10:47 AM UTC

logifail wrote: post #167

baud147258 wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I were living in Finland, I'd feel safer (against external aggression) if the country was in NATO than if it wasn't.

> If I were living in Finland, I'd feel safer (against external aggression) if the country was in NATO than if it wasn't Finland might feel safer once they're in NATO. The rest of NATO (and non-NATO states in Western Europe), perhaps not quite so much. Surely the risk of NATO being involved in any conflict only increases as NATO grows?

How has appeasement worked out in Chechnya, the invasion of Ukraine and seizure of Crimea, Georgia, shooting down a civilian airliner?

What shall we give Russia this time? Then when they come for Poland or Romania, who do you suggest we offer to rape and murder?

Re: Finland will seek NATO membership immediately

#327

Post by trash8435798 » Thu, May 12, 2022, 10:48 AM UTC

donthellbanme wrote: post #164

M2Ys4U wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>However, adding new members requires unanimous consent from all existing members, so it's not guaranteed to be smooth sailing. I highly doubt that any of NATO's members will veto an application from Finland (or Sweden).

Quoted post unavailable.

>I'm just tired of the USA paying for everything when we don't have the money.

It's not like the rest of the world is forcing USA to spend so much on military. Apparently USA just wants to be military superpower.

>We all know Russia will win.

I don't. There is no military victory in sight for Russia as long as supplies keep flowing to Ukraine. Putin can't back up but someone else can, even if they shared Putin's ideology because they can blame Putin for failure. War ends after Putin is displaced or dies.

Re: Finland will seek NATO membership immediately

#328

Post by [deleted] » Thu, May 12, 2022, 10:48 AM UTC

aa-jv wrote: post #242

klausjensen wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again, you are just deflecting, trying to distract from the core: The neighbours of Russia do not want to be invaded by Russia, so they join NATO.

It could as easily be stated that nations join NATO in order to participate in NATO's war crimes, and share its war treasures. For the same reason that immigrants come to USA - because that's not where the bombs are falling. Both statements are valid, and have just as much evidence supporting them.

[deleted]

Re: Finland will seek NATO membership immediately

#329

Post by suture » Thu, May 12, 2022, 10:48 AM UTC

klibertp wrote: post #278

watwut wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do large amount of Americans think that " We all know Russia will win."? Also, Finland builds its army? As in, NATO seems to be so eager on Finland joining cause they think they will gain something too.

I don't know, I'm not American, and don't care that much. I was referring to this part: > I'm just tired of the USA paying for everything when we don't have the money. Which seems to be one of the things that made the previous President the President.

I’m an American. For many decades the idea that the U.S. props up the rest of world at the expense of focusing on our people has been a strong one. It was very strong going into the 80s but has becomes less so since then. It is still used from time to time galvanize right leaning people. There is a strong isolationist bent within the U.S. too.

I do believe Trump was correct to criticize the lack of defense spending by many NATO countries and I too think Europeans should largely defend themselves. Personally I favor a multi polar world and would like the U.S. to retreat so to speak.

Re: Finland will seek NATO membership immediately

#330

Post by herbst » Thu, May 12, 2022, 10:48 AM UTC

wiseowise wrote: post #289

herbst wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honest question, how do I know that you saying this is not a typical response from a US-troll farm?

What does US gain from this?

Doesn't the US follow any political or foreign interests? I am sure they gain from stabilizing their dominance in some way.