Finland will seek NATO membership immediately • Hacker News Board

Re: Finland will seek NATO membership immediately

#191

Post by stoltzmann » Thu, May 12, 2022, 9:57 AM UTC

aa-jv wrote: post #188

stoltzmann wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have a single fact to back up your accusation of CIA meddling with NATO membership? The truth is, that countries want to join NATO so that Russia does not invade them. That's the sole reason.

Thats the propaganda/PR reason, readily parroted throughout a mainstream media that is literally owned by the people selling bombs to NATO . You might want to start your journey of enlightenment here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Gladio#Operations_in...

Do you have a single fact to back up your accusation of CIA meddling with NATO membership? Your link does not prove that.

Also, you have not provided any sources on the dismissal of reasons for joining NATO. Please do link to them if you have any evidence.

As is, it looks like you're parroting anti-NATO propaganda - it seems you're acting in bad faith. Are you paid for by the Russians?

Re: Finland will seek NATO membership immediately

#192

Post by aa-jv » Thu, May 12, 2022, 9:57 AM UTC

adwn wrote: post #183

aa-jv wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>completely volutarily The CIA has entered the chat. >A lot of countries bordering Russia have been invaded in the past 30 years by Russia. I assure you, the West has invaded - and left in utter ruin - far more sovereign democratic nations than Russia has. It was only able to do that due to NATO support, from which bases many crimes against humanity and war crimes have been committed. The Russians know this about NAT…

> The CIA has entered the chat. Please leave lazy, youtube-comments-style memes out of HN.

The CIA does not leave any room for voluntary decisions to join NATO.

It actively engages in repressive counter-measures against any politician that calls for NATO war crimes to be investigated.

It has a long, sordid history of defeating sovereign democracies that do not toe the NATO line:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Gladio#Operations_in...

Re: Finland will seek NATO membership immediately

#193

Post by throwaway894345 » Thu, May 12, 2022, 9:57 AM UTC

b112 wrote: post #174

vlvdus wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's rather incomprehensible and related to local politics. It's not clear if he can do anything at all so it might be just posturing. https://www.total-croatia-news.com/politics/62559-milanovic-...

One of the issues of allowing more and more people into NATO, is that potential for fracturing of the alliance increases. Especially, the original core alliance was very aligned after WWII, politically. However as NATO expands east, the potential for issues down the road grows. Look at the Ukraine. Let's imagine that this horrible war never happened, Russia never attacked, and that the Ukraine would join NATO in 2023…

Does NATO have a process for ejecting a member?

Re: Finland will seek NATO membership immediately

#194

Post by rocqua » Thu, May 12, 2022, 9:57 AM UTC

2Gkashmiri wrote: post #46

golergka wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So what plan, exactly? That's a question on everyone's mind about this whole invasion. I guess I should have said “idiotic justification as portrayed by Russian propaganda” instead of “plan”.

i am not an american, nor russian. i come from a third world country far from this drama. to me, "russian propaganda" is the same as "american propaganda" which demonizes the other and calls their version as the "ultimate truth". don't americans/west see their media/actions as what it is, propaganda aganinst russia? blocking RT across america/EU is seen as protecting free speech but god forbid if russia reciprocates…

The blocking of RT across the EU was indeed a stupid move. Not just 'wrong' but also ineffective. It gives the impression that we are afraid of Russian news. Which I think generally we need not be. What seems scarier is Russian-influenced domestic news. Banning RT won't fix the scarier issue.

Re: Finland will seek NATO membership immediately

#195

Post by aa-jv » Thu, May 12, 2022, 9:58 AM UTC

klausjensen wrote: post #184

aa-jv wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>completely volutarily The CIA has entered the chat. >A lot of countries bordering Russia have been invaded in the past 30 years by Russia. I assure you, the West has invaded - and left in utter ruin - far more sovereign democratic nations than Russia has. It was only able to do that due to NATO support, from which bases many crimes against humanity and war crimes have been committed. The Russians know this about NAT…

Deflection. Neighbours of Russia want to join NATO to prevent Russia invading them. And for good reason. No "mysterious" CIA-manipulation needed.

No post body was provided.

Re: Finland will seek NATO membership immediately

#196

Post by dhdjjd » Thu, May 12, 2022, 9:58 AM UTC

nymalt wrote: post #21

Didn't Russia (last month) threaten Finland/Sweden with 'consequences' should they decide joining NATO? Wondering what would those be. Putting both countries in a new list of 'very unfriendly countries'?

Setting them as targets for nukes in the quite likely nuclear war. Russia doesn't have many arguments left.

Re: Finland will seek NATO membership immediately

#197

Post by fsloth » Thu, May 12, 2022, 9:59 AM UTC

logifail wrote: post #167

baud147258 wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I were living in Finland, I'd feel safer (against external aggression) if the country was in NATO than if it wasn't.

> If I were living in Finland, I'd feel safer (against external aggression) if the country was in NATO than if it wasn't Finland might feel safer once they're in NATO. The rest of NATO (and non-NATO states in Western Europe), perhaps not quite so much. Surely the risk of NATO being involved in any conflict only increases as NATO grows?

"Surely the risk of NATO being involved in any conflict only increases as NATO grows?"

No, it diminishes. NATO is a defensive alliance. The more members it has with credible military spending (which Finland has) the higher the cost for Russia to invade.

Re: Finland will seek NATO membership immediately

#198

Post by aa-jv » Thu, May 12, 2022, 9:59 AM UTC

stoltzmann wrote: post #191

aa-jv wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thats the propaganda/PR reason, readily parroted throughout a mainstream media that is literally owned by the people selling bombs to NATO . You might want to start your journey of enlightenment here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Gladio#Operations_in...

Do you have a single fact to back up your accusation of CIA meddling with NATO membership? Your link does not prove that. Also, you have not provided any sources on the dismissal of reasons for joining NATO. Please do link to them if you have any evidence. As is, it looks like you're parroting anti-NATO propaganda - it seems you're acting in bad faith. Are you paid for by the Russians?

The existence of GLADIO is all the evidence one needs. Its purpose is to ensure any and all impediments to the expansion of NATO are removed.

The "Ma' Russians!" claim is not worth responding to, but I'm an Australian, have lived for decades in the US and in Eastern Europe, and I no longer play the nationalist game. I've been following the Wests' war crimes and crimes against humanity since 9/11, which has led me to the conclusion that yes indeed, we are the bad guys for starting World War 3 in 2003 with the illegal invasion of Iraq.

Nice try though.

Re: Finland will seek NATO membership immediately

#199

Post by gwd » Thu, May 12, 2022, 9:59 AM UTC

aa-jv wrote: post #135

mrep wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So even if NATO completely surrounded Russia, do you think any of said war crimes would actually be committed against Russia directly because if so I want whatever you're smoking. They have 6000 nukes and US + EU combined have 25 times the GDP of Russia. We have everything to lose and practically nothing to gain from attacking Russias worthless economy.

Yes, I do believe that NATO is a war-crime committing, human-rights abusing entity that is bringing much death and destruction and turmoil to the world for the sake of special interests - political and commercial - who stand to gain billions in profit from every single NATO base built. But, I've been paying attention to NATO's war crimes over the last two decades, as well as the immensely evil crimes against humanity…

You know what would be really helpful here? Links to sources to know what the heck you're talking about. Preferably Wikipedia pages or something like that.

And no, "do your own research" is not a valid answer.

Re: Finland will seek NATO membership immediately

#200

Post by [deleted] » Thu, May 12, 2022, 9:59 AM UTC

dmos62 wrote: post #157

serpix wrote: post #109

As a Finnish citizen, reservist this has been a very emotional spring. Both of my grandfathers were in the war with Russia. Both of my grandmothers had to leave and burn their homes in the areas annexed by Russia. Twice. I am 100% for Nato.

Why did your family burn its homes as they were leaving? To deny it to Russian (or collaborator) settlers?

[deleted]