181–190 of 1001 posts
It almost seems like some sort of reverse psychology thing… Russia saying "We forbid you to join NATO" is one of few things that would get these countries to join NATO. "Don't tell us what to do!"
What is Putin's play?
Usual caveats that I'm not a diplomat, don't have all the facts, etc etc., but this doesn't seem like a rational move for Finland or NATO. The UK just yesterday agreed to protect Finland in the event of an attack, and the UK's involvement would likely bring in many other NATO powers anyway, so arguably they're getting protection they'd otherwise have to pay for for free. And actually, officially joining NATO will hav…
From the Finnish point of view the case for NATO has become quite clear. There were a number of reasons why we used to believe Russia won't be invading us any time soon. 1. The invader would suffer a massive penalty for their reputation: didn't stop them from invading Ukraine. 2. The invader would be hit with massive economic sanctions: see 1. 3. Even unassisted, we would be able to mount a defense that can cause maj…
Earlier quoted context omitted.
NATO "expanded" when sovereign, democratic countries CHOSE to apply for NATO-membership, completely voluntarily, because they beleive it was and is the best deterrent for Russia to invade them. A lot of countries bordering Russia have been invaded in the past 30 years by Russia. Always leaving a trail of warcrimes, poverty, rapes, murdered and tortured civilians etc. None of these countries were NATO members. No wond…
>completely volutarily The CIA has entered the chat. >A lot of countries bordering Russia have been invaded in the past 30 years by Russia. I assure you, the West has invaded - and left in utter ruin - far more sovereign democratic nations than Russia has. It was only able to do that due to NATO support, from which bases many crimes against humanity and war crimes have been committed. The Russians know this about NAT…
Please leave lazy, youtube-comments-style memes out of HN.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
NATO "expanded" when sovereign, democratic countries CHOSE to apply for NATO-membership, completely voluntarily, because they beleive it was and is the best deterrent for Russia to invade them. A lot of countries bordering Russia have been invaded in the past 30 years by Russia. Always leaving a trail of warcrimes, poverty, rapes, murdered and tortured civilians etc. None of these countries were NATO members. No wond…
>completely volutarily The CIA has entered the chat. >A lot of countries bordering Russia have been invaded in the past 30 years by Russia. I assure you, the West has invaded - and left in utter ruin - far more sovereign democratic nations than Russia has. It was only able to do that due to NATO support, from which bases many crimes against humanity and war crimes have been committed. The Russians know this about NAT…
Neighbours of Russia want to join NATO to prevent Russia invading them. And for good reason. No "mysterious" CIA-manipulation needed.
I'm generally quite critical of NATO, but I would argue that once Putin threatened consequences if Finland or Sweden join NATO he pretty much forced their hands. Despite the skepticism towards NATO in both countries and "pride of neutrality" (for lack of a better term) in Sweden in particular, there is an even stronger wariness toward Russia, and you really don't want to yield to the bullying, because were does it en…
With that said I do understand NATO as a stability-bringing and mostly peace creating org so I am not 100% against joining. As long as we are not brought into any pro-active wars and NATO keeps being the effective "keep Russia from militaily f---ing with you"-prevention it currently is I would be OK with being a member.
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> The former USSR states in Eastern Europe have until now (or until the early 2000s NATO expansion at least) served as a half-decent buffer zone between the West and Russia, and we've had peace. I think you should go and tell Ukrainian people that their country is a buffer zone meant to act as a burnt ground, and they are not allowed to work towards joining the alliances and economic systems that they want to join in…
> I think you should go and tell Ukrainian people that their country is a buffer zone meant to act as a burnt ground, and they are not allowed to work towards joining the alliances and economic systems that they want to join in order to better their livelihoods and stop facing the former-USSR-level of poverty. I didn't say we should dictate policy to Ukraine - they're a sovereign state like the rest of us. That doesn…
No. It was just wrong. Better to have erroneous opinions buried at the bottom of the comments than to waste time debating with fools and giving them the ego pump they so desire.
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How about Hungary and it's seemingly pro-Russian leader, Orban? They could vote against.
they already said they wouldn't
Mr Orban also said that 'do not listen to what I say, watch only what I'm doing'.
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>completely volutarily The CIA has entered the chat. >A lot of countries bordering Russia have been invaded in the past 30 years by Russia. I assure you, the West has invaded - and left in utter ruin - far more sovereign democratic nations than Russia has. It was only able to do that due to NATO support, from which bases many crimes against humanity and war crimes have been committed. The Russians know this about NAT…
Do you have a single fact to back up your accusation of CIA meddling with NATO membership? The truth is, that countries want to join NATO so that Russia does not invade them. That's the sole reason.
You might want to start your journey of enlightenment here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Gladio#Operations_in...
Usual caveats that I'm not a diplomat, don't have all the facts, etc etc., but this doesn't seem like a rational move for Finland or NATO. The UK just yesterday agreed to protect Finland in the event of an attack, and the UK's involvement would likely bring in many other NATO powers anyway, so arguably they're getting protection they'd otherwise have to pay for for free. And actually, officially joining NATO will hav…
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Right, exactly. It's blatantly obvious that Ukraine is spinning the propaganda machine (and more effectively than Russia when it comes to the international audience, from what I can see), and the US doesn't seem to have any qualms with helping out. Being aware of that that doesn't change the underlying situation though. You can both know that the US is participating in propaganda efforts and also be against Russia's…
i have a problem with one news headline breaking news about "russia massacre in ukraine" where ukraine is the oppressed/underdog and that same news channel half an hour later celebrates how ukranian fighters destroyed X russian tanks and all. if ukraine is fighting tooth and nail against russia(with or without help) they are equals so non-participants should abstain from taking sides. otherwise they are essentially j…
Laughable. When an armed robber enters your house and tries to kill you and you hit them back that doesn't make you and the robber equals.
The land they are standing on is Ukrainian, the russian troops standing there have no business being there.