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NY Senate Bill S5474 proposing a universal single payer health plan for NYers

nysenate.gov

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Re: NY Senate Bill S5474 proposing a universal single payer health plan for NYers

#31

Post by ceejayoz »

rootusrootus wrote: post #23
ceejayoz wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I pay $10 in tax to save me $20 in costs, I'm not inclined to see that as a tax hike.

That assumes you get the cost saving. If my company stopped paying for my insurance benefit and instead gave that money to me directly, and then I bought the cheapest plan I could find on the insurance exchange ... I'd be paying more, not less. By a fair amount.

That seems readily fixable; make it a legal requirement that companies that provide employer-provided healthcare pay the premium to the employee if they opt out.

Re: NY Senate Bill S5474 proposing a universal single payer health plan for NYers

#32

Post by vmception »

rootusrootus wrote: post #6

"Died in committee" I assume will be the final result, official in a couple weeks.

ha lol, one sponsor, in committee

yeah I don't consider this kind of thing news, but it did open a conversation that I wanted to have

Re: NY Senate Bill S5474 proposing a universal single payer health plan for NYers

#33

Post by lettergram »

ldayley wrote: post #4

With California and New York both exploring statewide single payer healthcare it looks like the Overton window is moving closer to legitimate discussion of a nationwide single payer plan in the US. It’ll be interesting to watch, since this is such a hot-button topic here on many levels.

Why would you want it nation wide?

Even if you “support it”, I’d much rather watch the implications from the various experiments across states. Then we can select the best option.

Personally, I’d like to see some states ban healthcare outright. Others have full coverage and everything in between. Then wait 10 years and we can see the results. I strongly suspect there would be states willing to do this.

Re: NY Senate Bill S5474 proposing a universal single payer health plan for NYers

#34

Post by ceejayoz »

donatj wrote: post #13
ceejayoz wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it wouldn't. The European single-payer systems pay half what we do per-capita, factoring in private and public spending in both systems. The US system is wildly cost inefficient. See the chart at https://data.oecd.org/healthres/health-spending.htm

I think the idea that anything that worked in Europe would work here as well as there without inherent corruption and rent seeking is laughable.

The idea that the US is uniquely corrupt and rent-seek-y seems laughable.

There's no corruption in Italy? Eastern Europe?

Re: NY Senate Bill S5474 proposing a universal single payer health plan for NYers

#35

Post by a_t48 »

jimbob45 wrote: post #24
VWWHFSfQ wrote: post #16

If this is anything like the ACA then the vast majority of New Yorkers will end up paying twice for insurance. Once in taxes to subsidize the single-payer marketplace, and then again for their own employer-based insurance. Have to start somewhere though, I guess.

You seem to believe employees wouldn't be able to opt out of their own employer-based insurance. Why is that?

For the employee it doesn't matter. Either I keep my existing insurance or I opt out and take the state provided one, but I don't get any more money the money I'm saving the company.

Re: NY Senate Bill S5474 proposing a universal single payer health plan for NYers

#36

Post by rootusrootus »

ceejayoz wrote: post #31
rootusrootus wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That assumes you get the cost saving. If my company stopped paying for my insurance benefit and instead gave that money to me directly, and then I bought the cheapest plan I could find on the insurance exchange ... I'd be paying more, not less. By a fair amount.

That seems readily fixable; make it a legal requirement that companies that provide employer-provided healthcare pay the premium to the employee if they opt out.

In my case the premium wouldn't even come close to the marketplace cost. I'd be losing overall.

Re: NY Senate Bill S5474 proposing a universal single payer health plan for NYers

#37

Post by paulmd »

jimbob45 wrote: post #24
VWWHFSfQ wrote: post #16

If this is anything like the ACA then the vast majority of New Yorkers will end up paying twice for insurance. Once in taxes to subsidize the single-payer marketplace, and then again for their own employer-based insurance. Have to start somewhere though, I guess.

You seem to believe employees wouldn't be able to opt out of their own employer-based insurance. Why is that?

Yeah, the penalty for ACA non-compliance is zero at this point, so I think they could just opt-out entirely without cost, right?

I looked at it last year in terms of whether I'd need to pay for COBRA to cover the tax penalty and... nope. You can retroactively opt into COBRA for 90 days after the fact (iirc, check this yourself before using), so you can job hop and then if you happen to smash every bone in your body during that one week then just sign up for retroactive coverage.

Re: NY Senate Bill S5474 proposing a universal single payer health plan for NYers

#38

Post by newaccount2021 »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #27
lotsofpulp wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is dead in the water. The Republicans show no sign of supporting broad non means tested or non age gated taxpayer funded healthcare, and they hold the cards in the US Senate. On the state level, any broad based benefit that does not discriminate is also futile because benefit recipients can move into the state and payers for the benefits can move out of the state. See Vermont for the previous trial of this: https:…

California is the fifth largest economy in the world. New York State's GDP is roughly $1.5 trillion, 8 percent of the U.S. total. They are resourced at levels of entire OECD countries that offer universal healthcare. If Congress can't get its shit together, states that can should. https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2015/sep/01/dan-gecker... https://web.archive.org/web/20160107120644/https://www.who.i...

No post body was provided.

Re: NY Senate Bill S5474 proposing a universal single payer health plan for NYers

#39

Post by ceejayoz »

endisneigh wrote: post #25
ceejayoz wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then a focus on tax rates instead of total cost is entirely disingenuous.

Not really, there are people who get great health care for free from their employer, and others who get a greatly discounted rate. Their employers will not necessarily savings with their employees. The result for these employees could be more taxes for the same or worse care they’re already receiving. In aggregate I believe it’s the right move but let’s not act like everyone wins here.

> Not really, there are people who get great health care for free from their employer, and others are a greatly discounted rate, who will not necessarily share savings with their employees.

Then require that savings be shared.

Make it a legal requirement that any company that has employer-provided healthcare must rebate employees the premium costs if they opt-out.

Re: NY Senate Bill S5474 proposing a universal single payer health plan for NYers

#40

Post by gleenn »

irrational wrote: post #22
lotsofpulp wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is dead in the water. The Republicans show no sign of supporting broad non means tested or non age gated taxpayer funded healthcare, and they hold the cards in the US Senate. On the state level, any broad based benefit that does not discriminate is also futile because benefit recipients can move into the state and payers for the benefits can move out of the state. See Vermont for the previous trial of this: https:…

You really think people are going to flee NYC and the large cities in CA over this?

Anecdata but I personally know more than a few people who moved to Nevada to avoid California taxes, so yes.
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