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NY Senate Bill S5474 proposing a universal single payer health plan for NYers

nysenate.gov

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Re: NY Senate Bill S5474 proposing a universal single payer health plan for NYers

#21

Post by daenz »

rootusrootus wrote: post #11
ceejayoz wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it wouldn't. The European single-payer systems pay half what we do per-capita, factoring in private and public spending in both systems. The US system is wildly cost inefficient. See the chart at https://data.oecd.org/healthres/health-spending.htm

Of course it'll raise tax rates. That money does come from somewhere . The real question is whether employers will raise salaries enough to compensate for the additional taxes, once they're no longer providing insurance as a benefit.

>The real question is whether employers will raise salaries enough to compensate for the additional taxes, once they're no longer providing insurance as a benefit.

I don't think that's even a question. The answer is no, they won't.

Re: NY Senate Bill S5474 proposing a universal single payer health plan for NYers

#22

Post by irrational »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #12
ldayley wrote: post #4

With California and New York both exploring statewide single payer healthcare it looks like the Overton window is moving closer to legitimate discussion of a nationwide single payer plan in the US. It’ll be interesting to watch, since this is such a hot-button topic here on many levels.

It is dead in the water. The Republicans show no sign of supporting broad non means tested or non age gated taxpayer funded healthcare, and they hold the cards in the US Senate. On the state level, any broad based benefit that does not discriminate is also futile because benefit recipients can move into the state and payers for the benefits can move out of the state. See Vermont for the previous trial of this: https:…

You really think people are going to flee NYC and the large cities in CA over this?

Re: NY Senate Bill S5474 proposing a universal single payer health plan for NYers

#23

Post by rootusrootus »

ceejayoz wrote: post #14
rootusrootus wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course it'll raise tax rates. That money does come from somewhere . The real question is whether employers will raise salaries enough to compensate for the additional taxes, once they're no longer providing insurance as a benefit.

If I pay $10 in tax to save me $20 in costs, I'm not inclined to see that as a tax hike.

That assumes you get the cost saving. If my company stopped paying for my insurance benefit and instead gave that money to me directly, and then I bought the cheapest plan I could find on the insurance exchange ... I'd be paying more, not less. By a fair amount.

Re: NY Senate Bill S5474 proposing a universal single payer health plan for NYers

#24

Post by jimbob45 »

VWWHFSfQ wrote: post #16

If this is anything like the ACA then the vast majority of New Yorkers will end up paying twice for insurance. Once in taxes to subsidize the single-payer marketplace, and then again for their own employer-based insurance. Have to start somewhere though, I guess.

You seem to believe employees wouldn't be able to opt out of their own employer-based insurance. Why is that?

Re: NY Senate Bill S5474 proposing a universal single payer health plan for NYers

#25

Post by endisneigh »

ceejayoz wrote: post #20
endisneigh wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s still a tax hike, regardless of your rationalizing

Then a focus on tax rates instead of total cost is entirely disingenuous.

Not really, there are people who get great health care for free from their employer, and others who get a greatly discounted rate. Their employers will not necessarily savings with their employees.

The result for these employees could be more taxes for the same or worse care they’re already receiving.

In aggregate I believe it’s the right move but let’s not act like everyone wins here.

Re: NY Senate Bill S5474 proposing a universal single payer health plan for NYers

#26

Post by irrational »

baggy_trough wrote: post #19
VWWHFSfQ wrote: post #16

If this is anything like the ACA then the vast majority of New Yorkers will end up paying twice for insurance. Once in taxes to subsidize the single-payer marketplace, and then again for their own employer-based insurance. Have to start somewhere though, I guess.

If doing something is going to make the situation worse, it is better to do nothing instead.

It may only appear to make things worse. Sometimes you have to take drastic measures, like amputating a limb, to make progress on saving people.

Re: NY Senate Bill S5474 proposing a universal single payer health plan for NYers

#27

Post by toomuchtodo »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #12
ldayley wrote: post #4

With California and New York both exploring statewide single payer healthcare it looks like the Overton window is moving closer to legitimate discussion of a nationwide single payer plan in the US. It’ll be interesting to watch, since this is such a hot-button topic here on many levels.

It is dead in the water. The Republicans show no sign of supporting broad non means tested or non age gated taxpayer funded healthcare, and they hold the cards in the US Senate. On the state level, any broad based benefit that does not discriminate is also futile because benefit recipients can move into the state and payers for the benefits can move out of the state. See Vermont for the previous trial of this: https:…

California is the fifth largest economy in the world. New York State's GDP is roughly $1.5 trillion, 8 percent of the U.S. total. They are resourced at levels of entire OECD countries that offer universal healthcare.

If Congress can't get its shit together, states that can should.

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2015/sep/01/dan-gecker...

https://web.archive.org/web/20160107120644/https://www.who.i...

Re: NY Senate Bill S5474 proposing a universal single payer health plan for NYers

#28

Post by ars »

ldayley wrote: post #4

With California and New York both exploring statewide single payer healthcare it looks like the Overton window is moving closer to legitimate discussion of a nationwide single payer plan in the US. It’ll be interesting to watch, since this is such a hot-button topic here on many levels.

Massachusetts may try it as well: https://masscare.org/

It'll be a very interesting experiment, if it works, other states will copy it. If it fails wealthy people will leave those states for places with lower taxes, and poorer people will move in to gain free health care.

There's a reason the most populous states (CA, NY, MA) are the ones trying it first, and it's not because it's cheaper.

Re: NY Senate Bill S5474 proposing a universal single payer health plan for NYers

#29

Post by Ekaros »

endisneigh wrote: post #15
ceejayoz wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it wouldn't. The European single-payer systems pay half what we do per-capita, factoring in private and public spending in both systems. The US system is wildly cost inefficient. See the chart at https://data.oecd.org/healthres/health-spending.htm

The amount paid per capita and whether you would pay more taxes are not exclusive things. I’m not sure why people keep bringing up Europe - the USA is not Europe. For one doctors are paid more in the USA compared to Europe, medicine is more expensive here, more of the R and D originates here, etc

Maybe good question to ask is what makes it more expensive? Is it bloated administration and insurance system? Or is there some fundamental other difference?

Re: NY Senate Bill S5474 proposing a universal single payer health plan for NYers

#30

Post by aserdf »

it will be interesting to watch NY (and/or CA) put something like this in place and observe from afar. i strongly feel that states should be much more aggressive running policy experiments if their constituents desire them, and at the national level we all get some benefit of seeing how things turn out in real time.

all that said, assuming there is some tangible tax increase, NYC high earners are going to be knocking on the door of 60% combined rates (city, state, federal). tax avoidance and/or relocation services are going to be booming if so.

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