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NY Senate Bill S5474 proposing a universal single payer health plan for NYers

nysenate.gov

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Re: NY Senate Bill S5474 proposing a universal single payer health plan for NYers

#11

Post by rootusrootus »

ceejayoz wrote: post #5
endisneigh wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be shocking if it didn’t

No, it wouldn't. The European single-payer systems pay half what we do per-capita, factoring in private and public spending in both systems. The US system is wildly cost inefficient. See the chart at https://data.oecd.org/healthres/health-spending.htm

Of course it'll raise tax rates. That money does come from somewhere. The real question is whether employers will raise salaries enough to compensate for the additional taxes, once they're no longer providing insurance as a benefit.

Re: NY Senate Bill S5474 proposing a universal single payer health plan for NYers

#12

Post by lotsofpulp »

ldayley wrote: post #4

With California and New York both exploring statewide single payer healthcare it looks like the Overton window is moving closer to legitimate discussion of a nationwide single payer plan in the US. It’ll be interesting to watch, since this is such a hot-button topic here on many levels.

It is dead in the water. The Republicans show no sign of supporting broad non means tested or non age gated taxpayer funded healthcare, and they hold the cards in the US Senate.

On the state level, any broad based benefit that does not discriminate is also futile because benefit recipients can move into the state and payers for the benefits can move out of the state.

See Vermont for the previous trial of this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vermont_health_care_reform

It the same problem with homelessness, education, and mental healthcare (a subset of healthcare). Without a border to limit the ratio of net benefit recipients to net payers, the numbers will not work out.

Re: NY Senate Bill S5474 proposing a universal single payer health plan for NYers

#13

Post by donatj »

ceejayoz wrote: post #5
endisneigh wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be shocking if it didn’t

No, it wouldn't. The European single-payer systems pay half what we do per-capita, factoring in private and public spending in both systems. The US system is wildly cost inefficient. See the chart at https://data.oecd.org/healthres/health-spending.htm

I think the idea that anything that worked in Europe would work here as well as there without inherent corruption and rent seeking is laughable.

Re: NY Senate Bill S5474 proposing a universal single payer health plan for NYers

#14

Post by ceejayoz »

rootusrootus wrote: post #11
ceejayoz wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it wouldn't. The European single-payer systems pay half what we do per-capita, factoring in private and public spending in both systems. The US system is wildly cost inefficient. See the chart at https://data.oecd.org/healthres/health-spending.htm

Of course it'll raise tax rates. That money does come from somewhere . The real question is whether employers will raise salaries enough to compensate for the additional taxes, once they're no longer providing insurance as a benefit.

If I pay $10 in tax to save me $20 in costs, I'm not inclined to see that as a tax hike.

Re: NY Senate Bill S5474 proposing a universal single payer health plan for NYers

#15

Post by endisneigh »

ceejayoz wrote: post #5
endisneigh wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be shocking if it didn’t

No, it wouldn't. The European single-payer systems pay half what we do per-capita, factoring in private and public spending in both systems. The US system is wildly cost inefficient. See the chart at https://data.oecd.org/healthres/health-spending.htm

The amount paid per capita and whether you would pay more taxes are not exclusive things.

I’m not sure why people keep bringing up Europe - the USA is not Europe. For one doctors are paid more in the USA compared to Europe, medicine is more expensive here, more of the R and D originates here, etc

Re: NY Senate Bill S5474 proposing a universal single payer health plan for NYers

#16

Post by VWWHFSfQ »

If this is anything like the ACA then the vast majority of New Yorkers will end up paying twice for insurance. Once in taxes to subsidize the single-payer marketplace, and then again for their own employer-based insurance. Have to start somewhere though, I guess.

Re: NY Senate Bill S5474 proposing a universal single payer health plan for NYers

#17

Post by rootusrootus »

ldayley wrote: post #4

With California and New York both exploring statewide single payer healthcare it looks like the Overton window is moving closer to legitimate discussion of a nationwide single payer plan in the US. It’ll be interesting to watch, since this is such a hot-button topic here on many levels.

Something is going to have to change. As it stands, there isn't a plan on the national insurance exchange that I can buy that's even remotely as cheap as my company's plan (actual premium, not just the fraction paid for by employee).

Re: NY Senate Bill S5474 proposing a universal single payer health plan for NYers

#18

Post by endisneigh »

ceejayoz wrote: post #14
rootusrootus wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course it'll raise tax rates. That money does come from somewhere . The real question is whether employers will raise salaries enough to compensate for the additional taxes, once they're no longer providing insurance as a benefit.

If I pay $10 in tax to save me $20 in costs, I'm not inclined to see that as a tax hike.

It’s still a tax hike, regardless of your rationalizing

Re: NY Senate Bill S5474 proposing a universal single payer health plan for NYers

#19

Post by baggy_trough »

VWWHFSfQ wrote: post #16

If this is anything like the ACA then the vast majority of New Yorkers will end up paying twice for insurance. Once in taxes to subsidize the single-payer marketplace, and then again for their own employer-based insurance. Have to start somewhere though, I guess.

If doing something is going to make the situation worse, it is better to do nothing instead.

Re: NY Senate Bill S5474 proposing a universal single payer health plan for NYers

#20

Post by ceejayoz »

endisneigh wrote: post #18
ceejayoz wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I pay $10 in tax to save me $20 in costs, I'm not inclined to see that as a tax hike.

It’s still a tax hike, regardless of your rationalizing

Then a focus on tax rates instead of total cost is entirely disingenuous.
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