Feeling uncomfortable when leaving phone at home shouldn't be normal • Hacker News Board

Re: Feeling uncomfortable when leaving phone at home shouldn't be normal

#361

Post by eternityforest » Mon, May 09, 2022, 1:25 PM UTC

beefield wrote: post #349

eternityforest wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand, people who don't have the "illusion of ultrasafety" seem to develop a habit of just accepting danger as part of life, to the point of actively speaking out against things like automatic detection for kids left in hot cars. I think the "Blue pill" mindset is more useful overall. The red pill generally does nothing to build a safer world.

You... do understand that the "safest" world literally means you lying in a bombproof vat of fluid with all your sensory input produced virtually so that there is no way you can get into an accident that harms you physically? A safe world is of course nice, i do not deny that. But I see higher goals for our society than that. And pushing the boundaries of our knowledge and understanding of the universe we live in is…

Only a tiny percentage of risks require any kind of disruptive measures like that. I suspect if it were plotted, there would be a very obvious point where 90% of safety gains happened in the first 10% of the disruptive projects.

Natural causes are a different matter, but external causes are often really easy to stop. Even murder seems to be partly preventable just by removing motives.

I don't think most blue pillers have much real disrespect for red pillers, except when it endangers the public, or stops attempts to make the general public safer.

There have been daredevils for a very long time, nobody is saying that we should ban space exploration or stunt performers Blue pillers like Jackass just as much as anyone else.

I think the "standard blue pill position" is more that there's already plenty of people who will want to be astronauts regardless of any discouragement, and we don't really need to try to make that kind of outlook the default target we should all aspire to, and in general, we should apply tech wherever possible to keep us safe.

Lots of things affect other people. House fires can kill a whole family even though only one was responsible for starting it. Mandatory smoke alarms do not majorly impact people's lives, and can prevent people from dying on account of someone else's actions.

If someone wants to, and has the economic means to go phoneless for a day as a personal challenge without getting fired, that's great, they should write an article about what they learned.

But every year kids get permanently injured for life on the football field. I think we should be careful not to create a culture that leads people to think that's "Just how life is", and suffer very preventable chronic pain or brain damage.

Re: Feeling uncomfortable when leaving phone at home shouldn't be normal

#362

Post by JKCalhoun » Mon, May 09, 2022, 2:11 PM UTC

julianlam wrote: post #333

noobermin wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, believe it or not, maps or apps lie. Just two days ago, I passed by a CVS that was listed as still open on google maps whereas it had already been closed. On the exploration aspect, I'm really amazed that people really trust online reviews when restaurants clearly try to mess with the process or angry customers try to tank places they've had one-off bad experiences with. I take reviews as just another piece of…

Restaurant ratings are also a poor signal precisely because they're all relative to the restaurant type. You can't honestly say a 4.9 star McDonald's is better than a Michelin star restaurant with a rating of 4.8, but it could (and probably does) happen. In my city, ratings for Chinese restaurants almost inversely correlate with quality. The real quality Chinese restaurants have amazing food but absolutely shite serv…

Agree. Years ago when I saw Taco Bell with a 4-star rating I knew Yelp was not going to be very useful to me.

Re: Feeling uncomfortable when leaving phone at home shouldn't be normal

#363

Post by JKCalhoun » Mon, May 09, 2022, 2:13 PM UTC

rglullis wrote: post #278

delusional wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want to just dive into a little bit of a tangent. It's interesting to me that you're liberated by having access to everything all the time. Personally I find it pretty constraining. It makes me feel like there's nothing to discover, no mystery, no journey. If I wanted to find the best restaurant, I wouldn't have to go out and explore the local options or discuss it with friends. The more efficient and correct way w…

I agree. You are describing the concept of flaneuring , which is something that is getting lost on this hyperconnected culture. My worry is that by removing all chance of variability in our lives, we become automatons.

And we become dependent on it as well.

Also, I for one miss serendipity.

Re: Feeling uncomfortable when leaving phone at home shouldn't be normal

#364

Post by JKCalhoun » Mon, May 09, 2022, 2:19 PM UTC

rnotaro wrote: post #321

kitsunesoba wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This pretty much nails it, though in my case I wasn't a child. In my early 20s I lived in Japan for a few years. Early on, before I had a phone of any type (let alone a smartphone), it was incredibly stressful – even though I had studied the language prior to arriving, it wasn't enough to handle more than the most basic situations and trying to meet and coordinate with others was a nightmare. If anything deviated fro…

Before the pandemic, I went to Japan for 3 weeks and my cellphone was absolutely a lifesaver. I went to a lot of city where I would have been lost without Google Lens, Google Maps, HyperDia for trains, "Japan Official Travel App", etc. But with it, I've traveled accross less touristic cities and I was feeling confortable visiting local places without ant knowledge of the Japanese language beside a few words. I would…

It was somewhat joyful for me to be lost in Tokyo the moment my wife and young daughters stepped off the train. While I had a sort of crude printed map showing the location of our hotel from the station, I still had to approach several very shy Japanese locals and try with my English to get oriented with regard to the map (since there are of course maybe a dozen or so ways to have exited said station).

What came to mind, "I have always depended on the kindness of strangers."

I thought it made for a good example for my children who might be otherwise afraid to simply ask someone for directions (even though they might speak a different language).

Re: Feeling uncomfortable when leaving phone at home shouldn't be normal

#365

Post by JKCalhoun » Mon, May 09, 2022, 2:23 PM UTC

Melting_Harps wrote: post #347

kitsunesoba wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This pretty much nails it, though in my case I wasn't a child. In my early 20s I lived in Japan for a few years. Early on, before I had a phone of any type (let alone a smartphone), it was incredibly stressful – even though I had studied the language prior to arriving, it wasn't enough to handle more than the most basic situations and trying to meet and coordinate with others was a nightmare. If anything deviated fro…

> If anything deviated from the plan, including me getting lost somewhere along the way, it all fell apart. I hate to say it, but this is exactly why most people are tourists and not travelers: getting lost is the best part of traveling, it's only when you randomly find yourself in the most remote part of say Kyushu that you find the quaint ramen shop that you have the best bowl of Tonkotsu and meet a lot of people t…

Getting lost is how I found "Piss Alley" in Tokyo [1]. It became a must-stop after.

My fondest memories are steaming hot gyoza in the alley — and sharing a bench with a Japanese professor (whose English was very good), him recommending one drink after another (the first time I tried Korean makgeolli).

[1] https://youtu.be/g169m7SbmYU

Re: Feeling uncomfortable when leaving phone at home shouldn't be normal

#366

Post by tsimionescu » Mon, May 09, 2022, 2:23 PM UTC

mr_toad wrote: post #339

tsimionescu wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When I was a child, I figured out how my city was shaped, and figured out how to get around. You either live in a pretty small city, or an exceptionally well-laid one. I have lived in the same city all my life, and while I have a pretty good idea of where major points of interest are, and can probably walk or drive home from anywhere in the city, I definitely don't have any chance of finding a random address someon…

We had maps, bus schedules phone books. It wasn’t that hard.

Sure - with pre-planning. That is simply no longer required, which is a clear improvement with no downsides (though phones do have other downsides, no doubt about that).

Re: Feeling uncomfortable when leaving phone at home shouldn't be normal

#367

Post by 30944836 » Mon, May 09, 2022, 2:44 PM UTC

akira2501 wrote: post #36

sysadm1n wrote: post #11

Well not that I live in a bad neighborhood or anything like that, but you really don't know what could happen at any given moment, and need to phone emergency services. This is not paranoia (well maybe it is), but paranoia doesn't work retroactively, you have to be proactively paranoid. If you're concerned about privacy buy one of those cheap Nokia dumbphones that old people use. Keep your smartphone at home, and swa…

It's a radio I can use to summon help. Why would I _ever_ want to be without that? Turn the notifications off, or get something like Tasker that can turn them off and on for you on a schedule. Otherwise, keep it in your pocket. This device has no control over you that you don't allow it to have.

> This device has no control over you that you don't allow it to have.

I wish this were true. Phones leak data about users, which companies use to make profiles about you to serve you advertisements. Even if you block advertisements, the profile is still there. Companies are coming up with new ways to use this data. You can read more about that here:

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/12/19/opinion/locat...

https://archive.ph/se3nT

Re: Feeling uncomfortable when leaving phone at home shouldn't be normal

#368

Post by com2kid » Mon, May 09, 2022, 4:18 PM UTC

nonrandomstring wrote: post #129

com2kid wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's nice and all, but when I travel overseas having a universal translator with me is super cool . Being able to order a safe reliable taxi in most major cities, also super cool. If you don't want email on your phone, don't set it up. But having a map that redirects me around traffic accidents in real time saves me a lot of time. I'm not going to argue against smartphones being horrible little dopamine boxes, beca…

> purely utilitarian device You're absolutely right kid. Sincerely. I look forward to the day when the real utility shines through again. And I come from a time (as a now well bearded computer nerd) when it was all utility and coolness. But we're in some weird in-between days [1] where motivations have gotten distorted, ideals have got lost, and the utility just isn't enough any more to stave of the wrongness. FWIW I…

> You're absolutely right kid. Sincerely. I look forward to the day when the real utility shines through again. And I come from a time (as a now well bearded computer nerd) when it was all utility and coolness.

Sure, my Palm was amazingly useful, a much better productivity tool than my smartphone is, minus the maps and real time data stuff.

Having a button dedicated to "pull up my todo list" is a life changer. I wish I could buy a smartphone that did that, or even just let my lock screen be taken over by my todo list.

Given modern tech, I wonder how thin a Palm like device could be made now days.

Re: Feeling uncomfortable when leaving phone at home shouldn't be normal

#369

Post by Invictus0 » Mon, May 09, 2022, 5:11 PM UTC

eyelidlessness wrote: post #265

Invictus0 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> people understandably don’t like to let strangers use their phone Sounds like you're projecting here. What's your data for this?

Only anecdata, but I’ve experienced it directly, and I’ve also helped other people out when I saw them experiencing the same. I’m a little surprised by this response to be honest?

My personal experience is that I have never had someone decline to let me use their phone. I believe people are default kind and interested in helping others, and it's hard to imagine that in a random sample of say, 5 people, none would let you use their phone for a few minutes.

Re: Feeling uncomfortable when leaving phone at home shouldn't be normal

#370

Post by Crabber » Mon, May 09, 2022, 5:55 PM UTC

PeterisP wrote: post #327

Crabber wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet you are trivialising the experience of the person you are replying to. How rude.

Thing is, there's no symmetry here. If some people genuinely have problems and some genuinely don't, then only common conclusion is that the problems do exist (for some) and so solutions to them are required, so the experiences of the people who had problems can't be trivialized (because that experience is relevant for solving the problem even if they're in the minority) and the experiences of the people who didn't h…

>If some people genuinely have problems and some genuinely don't

You only gather data to reach that conclusion by letting both sides talk about their experiences, not by telling one side "you're rude, shut up and listen more".