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Go Ahead, Sell My Data

kevinjcurtin.com

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Re: Go Ahead, Sell My Data

#51

Post by slowpoke »

bnegreve wrote: post #47
Wilya wrote: post #21

This is addressing the wrong problem, at least in my view. I don't really care about what Facebook does with the data I consciously give them. And ads are just an side-effect. My main problem is that they actively try to get their hands on data I don't want to give them. Like, my constantly actualized GPS coordinates, or my browsing history. And that they store it. And process it. And store me into some kind of box.…

> The day Facebook, or Google, or anyone actually decides to do something evil, it will look ugly. Will they ? Don't know. Even if they don't they can get hacked (c.f. psn). This is the worst problem IMO.

> they can get hacked

To elaborate on this a bit, it might not even be necessary for them to get hacked from the outside. It's certainly not impossible for a malicious Google or Facebook employee to acquire (and sell) data.

Re: Go Ahead, Sell My Data

#52

Post by bad_user »

Wilya wrote: post #21

This is addressing the wrong problem, at least in my view. I don't really care about what Facebook does with the data I consciously give them. And ads are just an side-effect. My main problem is that they actively try to get their hands on data I don't want to give them. Like, my constantly actualized GPS coordinates, or my browsing history. And that they store it. And process it. And store me into some kind of box.…

I also hate the tagging.

For instance you do not usually opt-in to a group by yourself. Instead somebody else includes you in that group, without your permission. This is bad because opt-out of a group is an explicit statement that you don't want to be in that group, versus just ignoring a request which could just say that you don't have the time for that or you missed the invitation ... and people know you in those groups and opting-out is just rude.

This is not how real-life works btw.

I also got tagged several times in pictures that I do not like. Those pictures automatically appeared right on my "enhanced" profile page. When I untagged myself the person that did it thought it was some kind of technical problem and tagged me again. Then I untagged myself again, and got tagged again. Then I told that person that I don't like that picture and she got upset. I don't want other people tagging me - I want to tag myself in pictures that I approve of and this is something that Facebook won't allow me to do.

And talk about automatic tagging -- fortunately Facebook allows me to deactivate automatic tagging (for now), but this feature is just plain evil IMHO, as it encourages people to tag other people, even though that's not something they really want to do.

This list could go on and on and yet Facebook provides no means for me to automatically download the contact details of my friends. How fucked up is that? These are my friends, and many of them I invited to Facebook myself.

Basically these days I'm only using Facebook when I want to get in touch with somebody and I have no other way at my disposal OR if I want to spam people I don't care about ... but the real social networking that I'm doing these days is through my phone or through my email address.

Re: Go Ahead, Sell My Data

#53

Post by sambeau »

Very few sensible people are worried about anonymised, aggregated data being sold in return for a useful free service.

But what of the more specific nature of some of the things you and your friends discuss on Facebook?

What if bosses or potential employers could pay to look at your timeline? What if they could ask to see your GPS tracking data? What if Facebook could rent out user info to advertisers based on like button activity? Ever 'liked' anything pretty dodgy?

The point isn't that, obviously, they can't and probably won't at the moment. The point is how far down this route do we want to go and at which point should we draw the line.

Re: Go Ahead, Sell My Data

#54

Post by drcube »

Wilya wrote: post #21

This is addressing the wrong problem, at least in my view. I don't really care about what Facebook does with the data I consciously give them. And ads are just an side-effect. My main problem is that they actively try to get their hands on data I don't want to give them. Like, my constantly actualized GPS coordinates, or my browsing history. And that they store it. And process it. And store me into some kind of box.…

And don't forget, due to the PATRIOT act, simply having that information obligates facebook to serve it up to law enforcement without a warrant any time they ask. Think about that next time you "like" the High Times fan page or post "I'm gonna get crunk!" some Friday night.

Facebook itself may be pure as the driven snow, but I can guarantee the FBI is NOT.

Re: Go Ahead, Sell My Data

#55

Post by etha »

pingswept wrote: post #32
kcurtin wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is wrong with being both? To me it seems like a mutually beneficial relationship. I am getting tremendous value from using their site to interact with and stay connected with friends. They are using my data to make money by serving me unobtrusive ads that don't really negatively impact my user experience. I do think that being more upfront and more transparent would be a good thing, there are alot of misconcepti…

If Facebook were simply showing me ads for stuff I mentioned, or something like that, I would have no objection. "Hmm, this guy keeps posting about hats. He must like hats. Let's show him some ads for hats!" No problem. That's basically what I thought would happen when I signed up. I did not expect that when I visited cnn.com, after having logged into Facebook a week earlier, Facebook would log which articles I read.…

It's not obvious to me. How were you harmed by facebook logging this data?

Re: Go Ahead, Sell My Data

#56

Post by drcube »

bad_user wrote: post #52
Wilya wrote: post #21

This is addressing the wrong problem, at least in my view. I don't really care about what Facebook does with the data I consciously give them. And ads are just an side-effect. My main problem is that they actively try to get their hands on data I don't want to give them. Like, my constantly actualized GPS coordinates, or my browsing history. And that they store it. And process it. And store me into some kind of box.…

I also hate the tagging. For instance you do not usually opt-in to a group by yourself. Instead somebody else includes you in that group, without your permission. This is bad because opt-out of a group is an explicit statement that you don't want to be in that group, versus just ignoring a request which could just say that you don't have the time for that or you missed the invitation ... and people know you in those…

There is a privacy setting forcing all tag requests to come to you for approval first. Obviously it isn't easy to discover, however.

Re: Go Ahead, Sell My Data

#57

Post by elemenohpee »

Francon wrote: post #42

Is this really a problem or are people just reacting to hype? It seems to me that our data has been monitored for years both online and offline. That data is used to target businesses marketing messages but its nothing new. For example, insurance companies collect data on people and re-sell it to marketing companies. They then use that information to send you custom messages in the mail or offers based on your demogr…

There would be no problem if advertisements were a good faith effort meant to inform you about a product you may be interested in. As it stands, they are attempts to manipulate people into making irrational choices. Giving advertisers even more tools to get into your psyche and understand how to most effectively push emotional buttons for their own profit is not a comforting thought to me. We're assuming that advertisers would just be getting demographic data, but it would probably go much deeper, and it could be used for broader purposes. For example, Facebook sees that you're upset about losing a football game, here's an ad which says that you're not a man unless you drink this light beer. Or maybe you got dumped by your girlfriend, here's an ad showing a happy couple drinking Corona. They could also analyze broader trends. There seems to be a lot of middle school girls talking about this band, let's use them in our next advertisement for this frivolous fashion. Yes, this is already happening to some extent, but they could be much more effective with a data set like this where people assume they are talking to their friends. I'm not a marketer, so I'm sure someone in the industry could come up with even more "creative" ways to use the data.

Re: Go Ahead, Sell My Data

#58

Post by pothibo »

nikcub wrote: post #48
pothibo wrote: post #26

Damn right, I don't understand why people are going all up in arms for privacy on the Internet, this is _Internet_, you know, the place where everything is public. If you want to show your life on the Internet, you have to expect some people taking interest in it, whatever the intention. What I can't understand is how we are all upset about Facebook, Google, Apple, Microsoft and our privacy when we have NEVER given a…

> this is _Internet_, you know, the place where everything is public. what is the username and password to your online banking account?

You are obviously missing the point but let me humor you:

When you access a bank you are publicly trading the information between you and the bank. That means that if somebody on your LAN sniff your cookies (and SSL wouldn't be used) you could use their account on their bank website.

So yeah, bank info is public as well.

You cannot use the internet and expect things to be completely private like you can't go in a bar get naked in the middle of the dance floor and expect nobody to notice it. (Ok, this is far fetched but still.. I thought this was funny :P)

Re: Go Ahead, Sell My Data

#59

Post by etha »

nikcub wrote: post #46

I will give you one example. Somebody uploads my picture to Facebook and tags me in it. Facebook now matches my face to my name - forever. I can't ask them to forget that they know me, I can't ask them to delete that data, and I can't get a new face (although sometimes I would like to). Facebook now has that information forever and I played no part in them obtaining it. They could launch a feature tomorrow where you…

I met your friend yesterday and he was showing me some pictures from a camping trip he took last week. I asked "who's that guy standing to your left" and he told me it was you. Now I know what you look like, forever, and you can't ask me to forget or delete that either. I don't see the problem here.

Re: Go Ahead, Sell My Data

#60

Post by mbeattie »

Is personalized data like browsing habits or GPS info or anything else they collect market on and sell considered intellectual property? If so why can these companies sell it without compensating me?
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