Go Ahead, Sell My Data • Hacker News Board

Re: Go Ahead, Sell My Data

#21

Post by Wilya » Wed, Oct 19, 2011, 4:22 PM UTC

This is addressing the wrong problem, at least in my view. I don't really care about what Facebook does with the data I consciously give them. And ads are just an side-effect.

My main problem is that they actively try to get their hands on data I don't want to give them. Like, my constantly actualized GPS coordinates, or my browsing history. And that they store it. And process it. And store me into some kind of box.

Oh, and it candidly considers that Facebook, or any other person to whom it sells the data, won't do anything nasty with it. Just serving ads might be okay. But ultimately, they could do much more.

Do you want to know who the gay people are around you ? We could sell you that list ! Do you want to know who votes for your opponent ? We could sell you that list ! And so on.

The day Facebook, or Google, or anyone with a comparable database actually decides to do something evil, it will look ugly. Will they ? Don't know. Don't want to find out.

As a side note, I might pay for Facebook. Or I might have paid. Now, they will just get my money and sell my data anyway, so why bother ?

Re: Go Ahead, Sell My Data

#22

Post by killerdark » Wed, Oct 19, 2011, 4:23 PM UTC

Worst case scenario, all the websites I visit sell my data and it ends up (either directly purchased or through mergers/cooperations between data owners) into a single DB, which then sells this data to anyone interested. This can include anyone from secret service, to targeted advertisers to the PI my ex-wife hired to gather information to use against me in a lawsuit. Away goes my privacy.

Re: Go Ahead, Sell My Data

#23

Post by jakejake » Wed, Oct 19, 2011, 4:24 PM UTC

A typical "evil" example is health insurance companies who may be interested in your participation in health-related facebook groups.

A good rule of thumb is to just assume that anything you post could be made available to any company.

Re: Go Ahead, Sell My Data

#24

Post by rwolf » Wed, Oct 19, 2011, 4:26 PM UTC

kcurtin wrote: post #14

rwolf wrote: post #10

It's not clear to me that ad-supported == targeted ad-supported. The claim that there is no alternative is false--the alternative is less effective (and therefore less lucrative) ads. If you ask a HN-reader to choose either 1) less intrusive data collection or 2) more profits to the website, I think it's clear why the user prefers door #1.

Facebook using the information we have made available on their network ("intrusive data collection") doesn't really have a negative impact on us as users. At least not in any tangible way.

When I visit any page with a Like button I'm on their network? When they fill in a dummy profile for me before I sign up I'm on their network?

Re: Go Ahead, Sell My Data

#25

Post by gyardley » Wed, Oct 19, 2011, 4:26 PM UTC

kcurtin wrote: post #14

rwolf wrote: post #10

It's not clear to me that ad-supported == targeted ad-supported. The claim that there is no alternative is false--the alternative is less effective (and therefore less lucrative) ads. If you ask a HN-reader to choose either 1) less intrusive data collection or 2) more profits to the website, I think it's clear why the user prefers door #1.

Facebook using the information we have made available on their network ("intrusive data collection") doesn't really have a negative impact on us as users. At least not in any tangible way.

Absolutely. A class-action lawsuit against a mobile analytics company I own a chunk of was thrown out of court recently for exactly that - failure by the plaintiffs to establish actual injury or harm.

If there's no injury, there's no standing, and therefore there's no case.

Re: Go Ahead, Sell My Data

#26

Post by pothibo » Wed, Oct 19, 2011, 4:26 PM UTC

Damn right, I don't understand why people are going all up in arms for privacy on the Internet, this is _Internet_, you know, the place where everything is public.

If you want to show your life on the Internet, you have to expect some people taking interest in it, whatever the intention.

What I can't understand is how we are all upset about Facebook, Google, Apple, Microsoft and our privacy when we have NEVER given a damn about how credit card companies profile their client.

And credit card companies are so much worse because they first sell you credit card (via flat fee or interest rates) and then profile you and use that information to sell you even more stuff.

Re: Go Ahead, Sell My Data

#27

Post by drivingmenuts » Wed, Oct 19, 2011, 4:26 PM UTC

Once consequence of them not being able to sell my data is that these "services" wouldn't exist.

And surprisingly, seeing what they are and are not capable of, I don't have a problem with that.

Re: Go Ahead, Sell My Data

#28

Post by elehack » Wed, Oct 19, 2011, 4:28 PM UTC

kcurtin wrote: post #9

elehack wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One major concern that remains relevant is the prospect of abuse. You can't steal, misappropriate, or abuse what doesn't exist in the first place. You can't subpoena or execute a warrant to retrieve data that was never stored. Privacy laws and rules provide some projection, but that only goes as far as they are enforced. Nonexistence of data cannot be subverted and is a much more robust protection against the data fa…

I think the concern over data coming back to bite you in a legal setting is more valid than others, but is still only relevant in very specific cases. Who else falls into the category of the "wrong hands" and what harm could they really do with a list of my interests, preferences and other information I make available on whatever social networking site I am on?

Short version: lulzsec and blackmail/public embarrassment.

Intruders count as the "wrong hands". A future buyer/board/CEO with fewer ethical scruples than the current managers of a given data set may count as the wrong hands, or allow it to fall into other wrong hands.

Re: Go Ahead, Sell My Data

#29

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Oct 19, 2011, 4:32 PM UTC

Wilya wrote: post #21

This is addressing the wrong problem, at least in my view. I don't really care about what Facebook does with the data I consciously give them. And ads are just an side-effect. My main problem is that they actively try to get their hands on data I don't want to give them. Like, my constantly actualized GPS coordinates, or my browsing history. And that they store it. And process it. And store me into some kind of box.…

[deleted]

Re: Go Ahead, Sell My Data

#30

Post by slowpoke » Wed, Oct 19, 2011, 4:33 PM UTC

gghootch wrote: post #2

A lot of my peers would say this is just one line of code away from a society in which our every single action or movement is influenced by hyper personalized advertisements. They fear losing control of their own lives. I say bring it on. I look forward to the day when an algorithm tells me my taste buds prefer extra spicy beef panda express, order now and have it air delivered to you in ten minutes

> I look forward to the day when an algorithm tells me my taste buds prefer extra spicy beef panda express, order now and have it air delivered to you in ten minutes.

I'm sorry to be blunt, but that's degenerate, plain and simply. If the day arrives when people give up thinking for themselves, we've truly arrived at an Orwellian society, and your friends are damn right - we're not very far away from this.