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Homes in 97% of U.S. cities are overvalued, Moody's says

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Re: Homes in 97% of U.S. cities are overvalued, Moody's says

#21
Moody's, who starred in the 2007 / 2008 bubble? Yeah, there's a credible source.

Futhermore, attributing this run up to Covid is revisionist history. The Fed has been goosing the economy for too long. Even my dog knows this. And that has assisted those who are investing in residential homes (because office space has been slipping into the shitter).

This is Moody's and its WS family getting out in front of what's coming. Hear it enough times and we'll believe it.

Re: Homes in 97% of U.S. cities are overvalued, Moody's says

#22

I used to believe such things and then I did a median income vs price per square foot worldwide comparison and it turns out the United States is one of the cheapest, if not the, cheapest place in the world when it comes to the “affordability” (median income vs price per square foot). I think the issue is that the United States has been too cheap and finally that era of abundance at a low cost is coming to an end.

One issue with this is that it just reflects a certain amount of space bloat - if it's impossible to find anything that's not 50% larger than in a certain other country, but it's 50% less per sqft... you get more space, but it's not more within your reach.

Re: Homes in 97% of U.S. cities are overvalued, Moody's says

#23
I picture that vertical M2 supply graph from March 2020 whenever I hear ‘overvalued’ when it comes to real assets.

The money has changed, not the property. I’m now curious how undervalued it really is and what a huge accounting trick it was to play on everyone over the past two years.

Re: Homes in 97% of U.S. cities are overvalued, Moody's says

#24

Isn't this one of those "If everyone is crazy, you're crazy" situations? If every house is overvalued by some metric, then maybe the metric is wrong. People's perceptions of value are a large part of the actual value(meaning what someone would really pay) for things like housing that should depreciate over time.

Not when you have a populace that is by definition average & in need of a place to live/start a family, but have an external investor class of the foreign ultra rich or Wall street douche canoes buying everything up because fuck you & they can.

Crazy if you believe most of our nation should be essentially indentured servants for basic housing.

Something like that, I think.

Re: Homes in 97% of U.S. cities are overvalued, Moody's says

#25
post #2

It doesn't help that corporations buy all these houses up at full price and well above listing just so they can use it as rental income.

Those purchases are less than .5% of the market.

Don't let NIMBYs think that that is the problem. We need more housing.

Re: Homes in 97% of U.S. cities are overvalued, Moody's says

#26

Isn't this one of those "If everyone is crazy, you're crazy" situations? If every house is overvalued by some metric, then maybe the metric is wrong. People's perceptions of value are a large part of the actual value(meaning what someone would really pay) for things like housing that should depreciate over time.

There are multiple ways to value an asset other than its current price. One is cash flows: if you rented it, how much money would you get? Another is historical norms: if historically a city with N million jobs providing average income X can only support housing prices of Y, then one could conclude that housing is overpriced relative to the ability of people to pay for it.

Re: Homes in 97% of U.S. cities are overvalued, Moody's says

#27
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Such a simple analysis ignores e.g. the higher wages in the US offset by the lack of social nets

The bigger reason is you can buy a house with 20% down (or less) in the US, where that is nearly impossible just about anywhere else in the world Edit: I should say anyone can buy a house for 20% down or less. In much of the world some can do this, but credit is not extended to nearly as many of the population as it is in the US

This would make me think houses should be even more expensive than they currently are

Re: Homes in 97% of U.S. cities are overvalued, Moody's says

#28

Isn't this one of those "If everyone is crazy, you're crazy" situations? If every house is overvalued by some metric, then maybe the metric is wrong. People's perceptions of value are a large part of the actual value(meaning what someone would really pay) for things like housing that should depreciate over time.

No because houses as an asset class could still be overvalued relative to other assets.

They could be overvalued relative to rent which is a much more compelling case, since renting a property is a near exact (not perfect, but close) substitute for owning one, on a practical utility level.

Re: Homes in 97% of U.S. cities are overvalued, Moody's says

#29
post #2

It doesn't help that corporations buy all these houses up at full price and well above listing just so they can use it as rental income.

If they are renting the house out, that means it isn’t being removed from the housing supply. Why would this distort the market?

If a house is being rented it means I can't buy it, supply is low. That's what I understood housing supply meant when talking about house prices. Renting is not a factor, it's another market.

Re: Homes in 97% of U.S. cities are overvalued, Moody's says

#30

I used to believe such things and then I did a median income vs price per square foot worldwide comparison and it turns out the United States is one of the cheapest, if not the, cheapest place in the world when it comes to the “affordability” (median income vs price per square foot). I think the issue is that the United States has been too cheap and finally that era of abundance at a low cost is coming to an end.

Square feet aren't a great affordability measure (they tend to come in rather larger lumps).

In any case, why not just continue the era of abundance? We aren't really running short on space, and there is at least some indication that the lack of housing availability is a policy failure (rather than an expected outcome of some physical process or limit).

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