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Homes in 97% of U.S. cities are overvalued, Moody's says

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Re: Homes in 97% of U.S. cities are overvalued, Moody's says

#11
I used to believe such things and then I did a median income vs price per square foot worldwide comparison and it turns out the United States is one of the cheapest, if not the, cheapest place in the world when it comes to the “affordability” (median income vs price per square foot).

I think the issue is that the United States has been too cheap and finally that era of abundance at a low cost is coming to an end.

Re: Homes in 97% of U.S. cities are overvalued, Moody's says

#12
post #2

It doesn't help that corporations buy all these houses up at full price and well above listing just so they can use it as rental income.

If they are renting the house out, that means it isn’t being removed from the housing supply. Why would this distort the market?

Re: Homes in 97% of U.S. cities are overvalued, Moody's says

#13

Isn't this one of those "If everyone is crazy, you're crazy" situations? If every house is overvalued by some metric, then maybe the metric is wrong. People's perceptions of value are a large part of the actual value(meaning what someone would really pay) for things like housing that should depreciate over time.

No because houses as an asset class could still be overvalued relative to other assets.

So a slightly more sophisticated analysis would be "how does housing appreciation in each market compare to stock market appreciation over the same time period" - but the description in the article leaves that out, looking just at historical incomes/costs/rents. In a world where homebuying is increasingly out of reach of a larger percent of people, you'd expect it to be more disconnected with average or median income/rent, and more pegged to higher percentiles.

Re: Homes in 97% of U.S. cities are overvalued, Moody's says

#14

Isn't this one of those "If everyone is crazy, you're crazy" situations? If every house is overvalued by some metric, then maybe the metric is wrong. People's perceptions of value are a large part of the actual value(meaning what someone would really pay) for things like housing that should depreciate over time.

Well, according to the University of Michigan Survey of Consumers, the "buying conditions for houses" index has reached its lowest point since 1982, with 68% of respondents saying it is a bad time to buy in the March 2022 survey. A year ago respondents were equally likely to say that prices were low or high, now 20x more respondents say that prices are high.

Re: Homes in 97% of U.S. cities are overvalued, Moody's says

#15

I used to believe such things and then I did a median income vs price per square foot worldwide comparison and it turns out the United States is one of the cheapest, if not the, cheapest place in the world when it comes to the “affordability” (median income vs price per square foot). I think the issue is that the United States has been too cheap and finally that era of abundance at a low cost is coming to an end.

Such a simple analysis ignores e.g. the higher wages in the US offset by the lack of social nets

Re: Homes in 97% of U.S. cities are overvalued, Moody's says

#16
post #2

It doesn't help that corporations buy all these houses up at full price and well above listing just so they can use it as rental income.

Not sure if it's different in the US, but in Australia rental incomes for residential property are a tiny percentage of the value of the investment and most of the money is made through leveraged capital gains.

For example, I pay $24k a year on a house worth around $1.4m. This gives a return of around 1.7%, which is nothing compared to cap notes (5%) or dividends (~4%).

However, someone buying our house would only need to put down 20% up front, and could reasonably expect to see the price raise by 5-10% a year if trends continue. So that $280k deposit could theoretically return $500k+ over the course of 5 years because of the high leverage. The rental return over that period would only be $120k - not even enough to cover the interest repayments on the loan.

Of course, that's assuming trends continue. If prices started falling by 5-10% per year, that $280k deposit would turn into a $500k+ loss and the investors would be absolutely fucked.

Re: Homes in 97% of U.S. cities are overvalued, Moody's says

#17

I can’t help but think of that saying “the market can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent.” Yes, prices in many markets are very high and appreciating at a rapid clip, but if there are buyers, competition, and houses are continuing to move quickly, then it’s a bold statement to say they are overvalued and that we should predict a significant decline.

Well in this case it’s more like the market can stay irrational longer than you can stay homeless. Secure shelter is something that everyone needs to live, and in our economy you further need to find one close enough to your workplace. Thus, even if you think prices are crazy, you still must pay them.

In situations like this, where demand is for a vital good and supply constrained, the government should be carful about managing the market. From what I can see, US politicians do care about the housing problem but their solutions thus far just exacerbate it by injecting guaranteed loan money and driving up prices.

Re: Homes in 97% of U.S. cities are overvalued, Moody's says

#18

I used to believe such things and then I did a median income vs price per square foot worldwide comparison and it turns out the United States is one of the cheapest, if not the, cheapest place in the world when it comes to the “affordability” (median income vs price per square foot). I think the issue is that the United States has been too cheap and finally that era of abundance at a low cost is coming to an end.

Such a simple analysis ignores e.g. the higher wages in the US offset by the lack of social nets

It also ignores the vast differences between densely populated and not very populated cities.

Re: Homes in 97% of U.S. cities are overvalued, Moody's says

#19

Isn't this one of those "If everyone is crazy, you're crazy" situations? If every house is overvalued by some metric, then maybe the metric is wrong. People's perceptions of value are a large part of the actual value(meaning what someone would really pay) for things like housing that should depreciate over time.

Over vs under valued is more a question of stability than current prices.

The question is less about today than how risky and how profitable an investment it would likely be relative to other investments.

Re: Homes in 97% of U.S. cities are overvalued, Moody's says

#20

I used to believe such things and then I did a median income vs price per square foot worldwide comparison and it turns out the United States is one of the cheapest, if not the, cheapest place in the world when it comes to the “affordability” (median income vs price per square foot). I think the issue is that the United States has been too cheap and finally that era of abundance at a low cost is coming to an end.

Such a simple analysis ignores e.g. the higher wages in the US offset by the lack of social nets

The bigger reason is you can buy a house with 20% down (or less) in the US, where that is nearly impossible just about anywhere else in the world

Edit: I should say anyone can buy a house for 20% down or less. In much of the world some can do this, but credit is not extended to nearly as many of the population as it is in the US

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