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24 year old student lights match: Europe versus Facebook

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Re: 24 year old student lights match: Europe versus Facebook

#61

Post by zeteo »

count wrote: post #14

Maybe it's my unenlightened American perspective coming out here, but why is this a big deal? You chose to use the Facebook service, you chose to provide this information to them, and you chose to agree to their terms of service. Facebook isn't a government agency, it's a private organization that has persuaded people to give it armloads of data about themselves, and uses that for whatever completely legal purposes i…

>I really don't get the harsh kickbacks and complaints against things like "Facebook keeps records of pokes even if the user 'removes' them". So what? How is that something that is litigation or 'outcry' worthy?

Under US contract law, misrepresentation is sufficient cause to rescind an otherwise binding contract. The contract users enter into with Facebook is to accept their terms of service in exchange for being provided with a certain service. If the user can make a case that the service was misadvertised, e.g. by promising a "delete poke" functionality that was not, in fact, provided as expected, then this can be construed as a breach of contract on Facebook's part.

Re: 24 year old student lights match: Europe versus Facebook

#62

Post by Travisism »

sek wrote: post #45
count wrote: post #14

Maybe it's my unenlightened American perspective coming out here, but why is this a big deal? You chose to use the Facebook service, you chose to provide this information to them, and you chose to agree to their terms of service. Facebook isn't a government agency, it's a private organization that has persuaded people to give it armloads of data about themselves, and uses that for whatever completely legal purposes i…

Bullshit, it is not "completely voluntary". When everyone is using a communication service and there is no alternative. They claim to have a billion users. Short it is a monopoly, they have a lot of power and when you start to abuse it, like forcing users to accept your unfair terms of service, the government comes into play. I never heard that Google doesn't remove stuff when you remove them inside your service. The…

It is 100% completely voluntary. Nobody is forcing you to use Facebook. It is not even remotely close to the only communication service. I don't personally use Facebook and have no problem leading an active social and business life. Sure, a large portion of my friends use Facebook, but they also make phone calls, send text messages, email (through multiple different services), LinkedIn, Flickr, etc etc etc.

So how does Facebook have no alternatives?

If you don't like the product, or you don't like the way its run, or you don't like the way it handles your data, or you don't like the color of the log in button, then its simple. Don't use it.

As the original poster said, it is a private organization, and therefore you have a choice. This isn't social security, this isn't taxes. I can (and don't) use Facebook, but much to my dismay, I still pay my outrageous taxes.

This weeks' Monopoly is last weeks' MySpace when users choose to go elsewhere.

Re: 24 year old student lights match: Europe versus Facebook

#63

Post by anigbrowl »

count wrote: post #14

Maybe it's my unenlightened American perspective coming out here, but why is this a big deal? You chose to use the Facebook service, you chose to provide this information to them, and you chose to agree to their terms of service. Facebook isn't a government agency, it's a private organization that has persuaded people to give it armloads of data about themselves, and uses that for whatever completely legal purposes i…

Because EU citizens have a legal right to privacy; in the EU, your personal data belongs to you, and this ownership cannot simply be waived contractually.

From the EU charter of fundamental rights, which has constitutional force: Protection of personal data 1. Everyone has the right to the protection of personal data concerning him or her. 2. Such data must be processed fairly for specified purposes and on the basis of the consent of the person concerned or some other legitimate basis laid down by law. Everyone has the right of access to data which has been collected concerning him or her, and the right to have it rectified. 3. Compliance with these rules shall be subject to control by an independent authority

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/charter/pdf/text_en.pdf

I wouldn't bet on Facebook in this case. you will see more of this, since most people in the EU speak English and are avid consumers of broadband, but are not especially sympathetic to the American philosophy of contract law.

Re: 24 year old student lights match: Europe versus Facebook

#64

Post by Natsu »

slowpoke wrote: post #58
Natsu wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the complaints is that they have profiles on people who are not users. They can get other people to give them information about you. Specifically, have a look at complaint #2: "Shadow Profiles. Facebook is collecting data about people without their knowledge. This information is used to substitute existing profiles and to create profiles of non-users." http://europe-v-facebook.org/Compalint_02_Shadow_Profiles.…

This. It's the most important thing to stretch by far. One can definitely argue about whether or not people using Facebook should be allowed to complain that they are giving their data to them. I do not use Facebook. They still try to get my data. Well, they would if they could, and wouldn't be shitlisted by at least four layers of filters (NoScript, Ghostery, AdBlock, RequestPolicy). Still, I can't block Facebook tr…

The fun thing about tags is that you can't remove them unless you join Facebook. And one of the complaints is that removed tags aren't removed, but made non-public. These two points are raised in complaints #3 and #11:

http://europe-v-facebook.org/Complaint_03_Tagging.pdf

http://europe-v-facebook.org/Comlaint_11_RemovalOfTags.pdf

Re: 24 year old student lights match: Europe versus Facebook

#65

Post by anigbrowl »

count wrote: post #46
VladRussian wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Why is nobody complaining about NTFS or ext3/4 not actually zeroing out the file space when you delete something, and instead just 'marking it deleted' or 'removing the pointer in the inode'? you have obviously never dealt with DoD or anybody close to it or even just with a serious enterprise/bank.

Actually, I have. Shredding, NIST, the whole nine. Facebook isn't protecting classified nuclear secrets, or the keys to the financial kingdom, it's protecting pictures of cats and drunk college parties. And outside of a few special places, such as the DoD, NOBODY CARES about the file system issues.

drunk college parties

the kind that can prevent you from getting that job you want 15 years afterwards? Facebook may be a private company, but would you want them (or anyone) disgorging all their data on you that they've ever had in response to a government subpoena - for a background check or a security clearance, for example?

Re: 24 year old student lights match: Europe versus Facebook

#66

Post by appleflaxen »

count wrote: post #44
fhars wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, if they don't abide by the laws, their purposes are not completely legal. Just like you cannot completely voluntarily sell yourself into slavery under US law, there are certain inalienable rights that cannot be given up under european law, and control over your personal data is one of them. That is the point of it.

Semantics here - if they aren't abiding, you are right, it is illegal. But I'm asking more along the lines of 'why' is that illegal. Is that data privacy an inalienable, non-contract-surrendable right? That seems ridiculously draconian.

It seems strange to call a liberal definition of rights "draconian". There must be a better adjective.

Re: 24 year old student lights match: Europe versus Facebook

#68

Post by ltamake »

count wrote: post #14

Maybe it's my unenlightened American perspective coming out here, but why is this a big deal? You chose to use the Facebook service, you chose to provide this information to them, and you chose to agree to their terms of service. Facebook isn't a government agency, it's a private organization that has persuaded people to give it armloads of data about themselves, and uses that for whatever completely legal purposes i…

Primary example: the Like button. Even when I'm not logged into Facebook the button tracks where I go. I never checked a box to have the like button shown to me.

Also, agreeing to use a website does NOT give the website the ability to break the law. Otherwise, we could have drug-trafficking sites completely in the open with a box saying "By checking this box, you understand that we sell extremely illegal drugs, and that you will not take any action against this site."

Re: 24 year old student lights match: Europe versus Facebook

#69

Post by anigbrowl »

cwe wrote: post #7

Man I want a copy of my report. Considering they're supposedly all about eliminating privacy, shouldn't they want to make all this accessible?

Hmmm, I'm an Irish citizen, although I live in the US. I have often wondered at the weakness of US data protection laws, and this might make for an interesting study.
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