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24 year old student lights match: Europe versus Facebook

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Re: 24 year old student lights match: Europe versus Facebook

#31

Post by illumen »

count wrote: post #14

Maybe it's my unenlightened American perspective coming out here, but why is this a big deal? You chose to use the Facebook service, you chose to provide this information to them, and you chose to agree to their terms of service. Facebook isn't a government agency, it's a private organization that has persuaded people to give it armloads of data about themselves, and uses that for whatever completely legal purposes i…

Spying on people is still evil if it is a government institution or a private one.

Zuck: They "trust me"

Zuck: Dumb fucks

People don't choose to be tracked on other websites by facebook. People don't even read the terms service. Most people just want to read what their friends write, and look at pictures of cats.

Re: 24 year old student lights match: Europe versus Facebook

#32

Post by VladRussian »

count wrote: post #14

Maybe it's my unenlightened American perspective coming out here, but why is this a big deal? You chose to use the Facebook service, you chose to provide this information to them, and you chose to agree to their terms of service. Facebook isn't a government agency, it's a private organization that has persuaded people to give it armloads of data about themselves, and uses that for whatever completely legal purposes i…

>Why is nobody complaining about NTFS or ext3/4 not actually zeroing out the file space when you delete something, and instead just 'marking it deleted' or 'removing the pointer in the inode'?

you have obviously never dealt with DoD or anybody close to it or even just with a serious enterprise/bank.

Re: 24 year old student lights match: Europe versus Facebook

#34

Post by cwe »

runaway wrote: post #22
cwe wrote: post #7

Man I want a copy of my report. Considering they're supposedly all about eliminating privacy, shouldn't they want to make all this accessible?

Is the "Download a copy of your Facebook data." link under Account Settings not the data you want? It looked complete to me.

It's a start. It does not include pokes, events threads, posting on other peoples profiles, etc: lots of the stuff that it sounds like these Europeans get.

Re: 24 year old student lights match: Europe versus Facebook

#35

Post by kisielk »

ckinniburgh wrote: post #23

There are a few comments here questioning why it's really important to actually delete data. This is a serious issue for a few different reasons. If I believe that I've deleted something, then there should be no way for anyone to retrieve the information -- I no longer have to worry about security breaches at Facebook (internally or externally), Government warrants, or Facebook accidentally reinstating the informatio…

Facebook could make data removable by users if they engineered their site to allow that. The problem is that they haven't, and it appears they've in fact done the opposite. We need data protection laws like this to put the onus on the service providers to make giving users control of their data a priority.

Re: 24 year old student lights match: Europe versus Facebook

#36

Post by mirkules »

VladRussian wrote: post #28

"So many people applied for their own CDs that Facebook had to send out an email indicating it was unable to comply with the requirement that it provide the information within a 40 day period." Has Facebook considered using benefits of modern technology and delivering the requested info electronically by, for example, setting up a web site where users could access/browse/download the requested info and may be even le…

This is a standard customer service trick - externalize the cost (time) and minimize business losses (disclosure of data). Make an action difficult enough to discourage more casual users but stay within the legal limit.

This is why checks take up to 14 business days to clear (to make a quick buck in those days), why you have to wait 30 minutes on hold "for the next available representative" (to discourage you calling in), and why most rebates are mail-in (in hopes that you will forget).

Re: 24 year old student lights match: Europe versus Facebook

#37

Post by VladRussian »

MartinMond wrote: post #21
count wrote: post #14

Maybe it's my unenlightened American perspective coming out here, but why is this a big deal? You chose to use the Facebook service, you chose to provide this information to them, and you chose to agree to their terms of service. Facebook isn't a government agency, it's a private organization that has persuaded people to give it armloads of data about themselves, and uses that for whatever completely legal purposes i…

It's very easy. All countries (except Somalia) regulate their markets. For example in the US if there are more than 500 investors in your company you are required to disclose certain information (I read about that regarding Facebook: http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2011/01/03/facebook-and-the-500-... ) In the EU companies are required to disclose data about individuals to those individuals. In both cases what happened wa…

>All countries (except Somalia) regulate their markets.

if you know anybody who's worked in Somalia, you'd know about regulations there. It is just a little bit faster and less traditional when cease-and-desist is delivered using AK-47, and regulations change frequently as one "General" is replaced by another.

Re: 24 year old student lights match: Europe versus Facebook

#38

Post by tonfa »

Permit wrote: post #2

Honest question: Why is Facebook governed, at least in part, by European law? The reason I ask is that the United States has a lot of trouble enforcing its copyright laws abroad (which is good in my opinion), but Facebook and Google seem to bend to European laws regarding privacy and transparency.

I don't think comparing copyright enforcement, and companies offering a service targeted to citizens of foreign countries is really relevant.

As far as I know, what matters is that Facebook targets EU citizens (by having subsidiaries in the EU, by running ads, by explicitly accepting users from abroad etc.)

I think you'll find some pointers at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conflict_of_laws

Re: 24 year old student lights match: Europe versus Facebook

#39

Post by rhizome »

nordsieck wrote: post #29
estel wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One might still wish to benefit from some of the undoubtedly useful aspects of Facebook without needlessly surrendering various rights to their data as enshrined in European law.

One might wish to eat one's cake and have it too. Not all wishes are reasonable.

Are you referring to Facebook wanting to operate under US laws in other countries?

Re: 24 year old student lights match: Europe versus Facebook

#40

Post by count »

AlexMuir wrote: post #24
count wrote: post #14

Maybe it's my unenlightened American perspective coming out here, but why is this a big deal? You chose to use the Facebook service, you chose to provide this information to them, and you chose to agree to their terms of service. Facebook isn't a government agency, it's a private organization that has persuaded people to give it armloads of data about themselves, and uses that for whatever completely legal purposes i…

You have to look beyond the law to what its purpose is - to prevent companies from exploiting your personal information, and to force them to tell you what data they hold. Facebook are exploiting your browser history, without telling you. And are refusing to even own up to it. I don't believe that 99% of Facebook users would tick a box that said 'Please record every webpage I visit and store it for your own future us…

But if you, as a customer of those websites, agree to them knowing you are there, and they chose to share that with others, what right does the government have to prevent that?

Why is this not a 'just don't use the service if you don't like it' deal?

Credit bureaus are significantly different - you have literally no choice in that manner; Facebook isn't providing data to be used in that type of decision though. If some secret, 'I cant see it but they show my boss' data existed, and that was used when applying for a job or something, I could understand that perspective.

This, however, is no more than a guy standing outside a row of stores, taking notes during the day of what people go in what stores, and how big their bags are when they come out. Is that illegal in Europe as well?

Edit because I can't seem to reply to comments below: That's fascinating. If even that sort of behavior is illegal in Europe, it makes the outcry against what Facebook is doing make more sense.

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