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The Agony of Eros: Dating

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Re: The Agony of Eros: Dating

#221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see, well I'm not part of the cool kids then.

Do you really think dating used to be easy? I fail to see how "dating apps and social media" is the direct cause of the problems you mention, or that any of those problems are new to society.

Dating was definitely easier 20 years ago and I am saying this from the perspective of a guy that discovered that I was so big of an idiot in my early twenties and still had it very easy.

Re: The Agony of Eros: Dating

#222

Looks like the commoditization of love/dating apps and social media begins to show its ugly tail. Stories from my circle of friends/families: - Girls obsessed over their physiques. Going skinny to the point it wrecked their hormones. - People who are married just shy over 2-3 years are thinking on divorce, or have girlfriends/boyfriends. - People having open relationships. - Girls randomly make out in club with some…

This seems rather biased towards women, men are just as likely to make out with strangers in the club. And while men are not getting surgery to enlarge their boobs, they do get hair implants and steroids/SARMs are more prevalent than ever. I think the constant barrage of certain images on social media cause both men and women to be ever more insecure about the way they look.

Compare the rates: what is regular behavior for women is almost an exception for men. I don't know personally anybody with a hair implant or using steroids and while a statistics with a sample size of 1 is not relevant, I think it tells something.

Re: The Agony of Eros: Dating

#223

I wish Eva Illouz had less success. She is mostly a philosopher, that is someone who says what's goes through her head, and a not a social scientist. I think her idea of the commoditization of love has a lot of success because it seems obvious to our moral oriented minds but the "commodization of {some aspect of life} in the modern society is a commonplace of lazy social analysis, and she is far from alone doing that…

> but she claims it is the source of modern emotional misery and that people before knew how to love

Did this come up in the article at all? Or are you just projecting your own thoughts onto it? I didn't see this idea when I was reading

Re: The Agony of Eros: Dating

#224
post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Eh, not all people look at their relationship in that specific "work for sex" way. I'm not talking just about relationships, I'm talking about the asymmetric access men and women have to sex. This is an undeniable fact of life. If a man wants to get laid tonight, he will have to work hard, and his chances are not that high. That's why ~80% of the prostitutes are women... most women just don't need to pay for sex.

For most man yes, some men get laid easily.

True, but even for them it is harder that for most women. I think this is the point above.

Re: The Agony of Eros: Dating

#225
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No actually females can typically "smell" (for lack of a better word) out of the sweat of males if the immune system markers are different enough to protect potential offspring from getting the same sicknesses as mother or father. "In several species, including rodents and fish, it has been shown that the Major Histocompatibility Complex (MHC) influences mating preferences" "This study thus supports the hypothesis th…

This is true, but hormonal birth control all but destroys the innate ability to do this correctly. Most hormonal birth control functions by putting the body into a hormonal state that mimics pregnancy. If you're already carrying a baby, what you've evolved to look for in people to become close to during that time is actually people who are genetically more like you, rather than complementary. If for some reason you d…

>>>This is true, but hormonal birth control all but destroys the innate ability to do this correctly.

>>>If the women stop using birth control, their whole perception changes.

Very interesting, thanks. I've read similar conclusions pushed in manosphere/PUA circles for years, about how birth control has some major negative impacts on womens' behavior. My personal dating experience supports the pheromonal detection/selection abilities of women who are NOT on birth control as well. When multiple women from different countries/cultures/ethnicities all bury their faces in your chest, exclaim "I love your smell"....and ask to have your baby...something is going on beyond your good looks and ability to spit game.

Re: The Agony of Eros: Dating

#226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I realize you didn’t talk explicitely of catholicism but at least in catholicism there is a strong control of sex: priests make vows of celibacy, sex is seen only as a means for reproduction, and there is literature on using exercise (if not worse) to put off sex. Lots of practices of christianity have masoquism undertones (original sin, some rituals). Of course this does not mean everyday christians share this inter…

It’s important to realize that Catholicism as practiced by a given culture is influenced by prevailing beliefs. The puritan(ical) genesis of the United States has resulted in a mostly Protestant practice of Catholicism in the U.S. (polls of US Catholics show that over half diverge with Catholic teachings). Catholicism in my experience is very pro-sex, and many teachings are dedicated to it: https://www.vatican.va/con…

Thanks for the source. I guess it is possible to understand the text as "pro-sex" if one limits it to the context of marriage only and not allowing any anticonceptive mechanism. Independently of my personal beliefs I would not qualify anything with those limitations as "pro-sex", since they limit substantially what sex is allowed.

Re: The Agony of Eros: Dating

#227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This article specifically decries systems. The advice not to over-analyse is itself an analasys and a piece of wisdom, which you and anyone you tell it to is better off for knowing. You have improved your and any readers life by becoming less ignorant . Your analasys is actually merely about optimization, specifically over-optimization or mis-directed optimization. And that is just one of the many thhings that are va…

Yes, the article decries some systems. But it's still over-thinking and over-systematizing in it's own way. People saying "don't overthink it" aren't advocating for ignorance. They are recognizing that over-systematizing and over-thinking is its own form of ignorance. It's a particularly seductive form of ignorance for engineers because we carry tacit assumptions about how systems can be broken down and analyzed. The…

I listed 3 exam0les. Why aren't I equally as likely to be the thoughtful person who arrived at the understanding on their own, or the person fortunate enough to have a parent who gave sensible advice?

Do I now get to take my fair turn at attacking the person instead of their argument? For instance maybe your fondness for ignorance is consistent with being ignorant of the fact that abuse is a thing that actually happens, and that manipulation is how it happens, and relies on the victim being unaware of recognizable patterns and processes. You can become aware of a problem even if you've had the good luck or the good sense to have avoided suffering it yourself. For instance I don't have to be a female myself to at least try to guess at the plight of females in general in the world we all share.

"It might be worth unpacking your lack of empathy with a therapist."

Re: The Agony of Eros: Dating

#228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't find that funny. I have Jewish ancestry and never met my grandfather because of those criminals. I assume you are joking because comparing Berlin 2022 with Berlin during the third reich can only either be a joke or an absence of basic understanding of European history between now and then so flabbergasting that it borders on imbecility.

The criminals which had widespread support across Berlin and Germany. It was also only a couple generations ago. I’m also of Jewish heritage and multiple members of my extended family were wiped out. Like I said, Germans and Berliners particularly seem very tolerant of all sorts of extremist ideas. I count “open relationships” as one of them. It’s like who cares about why things are traditionally the way they are, le…

Well, as far as "old" goes there is very hard evidence that monogamy is rather the "new" idea.

Not the other way around.

Re: The Agony of Eros: Dating

#229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yes, I think dating used to be easier.

Think again. The age of Tinder has made this vastly easier - not harder.

Easier, perhaps, for finding initial dates, but harder for finding committed love. Although not explicit, there is an undertone in the article implying an ultimate goal of persistence & stability - i.e., marriage.

Re: The Agony of Eros: Dating

#230
post #112

> You learn about shared interests, job, which college they went to, their friend group. This is the prime mistake I see my friends make. As a guy, there are pretty much only two things that will seriously and negatively affect your dating life: being short or boring. Talking about your college, job, and friends is usually boring. In fact, even funny stories from these contexts are often boring for your dates to hear…

When I was in my early 20's this was a challenge for me, but I worked at it. Now, I am 40 and it is effortless. There is something to be said for having some well crafted stories, but I think that's a lesser part of it. The bigger thing is being able to LISTEN so you can find common ground and build rapport. Getting into the sales side in my career was the first time I began to realize how important this was. But not…

>>>There is something to be said for having some well crafted stories, but I think that's a lesser part of it. The bigger thing is being able to LISTEN so you can find common ground and build rapport.

^This, so much this. Especially learn enough about the woman from what she communicates to cue up the most appropriate of your inventory of stories.

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