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Airbnb’s design to live and work anywhere

news.airbnb.com

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Re: Airbnb’s design to live and work anywhere

#381

Post by bryanrasmussen »

asiachick wrote: post #133
vmception wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think a lot of founders and their friends are using the office as a replacement for a healthier separate social circle and social life that they lack (a lot of people lack that, and they do too), so for them they're really just hanging out and like the potential for “increased collaboration” for that reason

(1) Healthiest = great social circle at work that bleeds into social circle out of work (2) Less healthy = great social circle at work, separate great social circle outside of work (3) Even less healthy = no social circle at work (just a job), great social circle outside work (4) Worse = great social circle at work, no social circle outside of work (I never seen this situation. If you have a great social circle at wo…

>(1) Healthiest = great social circle at work that bleeds into social circle out of work

seems like it would lead to dating and that could be problematic for various well known reasons.

Re: Airbnb’s design to live and work anywhere

#382

Post by seer »

JCharante wrote: post #354
seer wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think they even try to get work visas. A lot of countries have tourist visas up to 90 days. And if you go to a country to work there, but are not paid by a local company, you are basically a tourist. I think this is what AirBnB are doing. A lot of countries have a requirement for you to reside in it for at least half the year to be able to be taxed there and be considered an employee. A lot of countries allow…

> I don’t think they even try to get work visas. A lot of countries have tourist visas up to 90 days. And if you go to a country to work there, but are not paid by a local company, you are basically a tourist. this has been discussed to death on DN forums. Basically yes you're breaking the law but if you don't get caught no one will know. Some people don't like taking this risk while some don't mind.

Well traveling within the EU should be simple enough. Haven't done it outside but I have a few questions.

If I'm on paid leave, I'm still earning money, and I go to Asia - am I breaking the law? I'm still "doing" the activity that's earning me money.

If I'm on my paid leave, and fiddle with my blog, which gets ad revenue - am I earning money and thus doing illegal economic activity?

Not a lawyer so would love a more rigorous definition of "doing work" that is applied in Asia so I know if I'm overstepping. Maybe you can point me to some of those discussions?

Re: Airbnb’s design to live and work anywhere

#383

Post by noduerme »

gnfargbl wrote: post #373
noduerme wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I did. The whole point is that I wasn't just a one-or-two-day ghost. I lived in these places for as I said 3-6 months (in one case almost a year). So I knew my neighbors, and treated them as I would neighbors in any other apartment I rented as a regular tenant. [edit] I should just add that I'm as embarrassed to make noise or screw with anyone's living space as a homeowner as I was as a tenant. I could make $400…

What it is that leads you to believe the 3-6 months thing is so significant? There are (a very small proportion of) AirBnB guests who are awful. There are (a very small proportion of) longer-term tenants who are awful. At least with AirBnB, the awful guests are gone after a couple of nights. I know some AirBnBs are used as party destinations, and that's different -- but it's a problem with those hosts, not with the p…

I think the fact that the 3-6 months was negotiated directly with the landlord is more significant than the length of time itself. They essentially had to take their listing off Airbnb and rent it as a regular furnished apartment. This enforces a mutual sense of responsibility and respect on myself and them which is perhaps even more than would exist in a typical lease agreement, because it's done under "special circumstances". Whether you blame the hosts or the platform or the guests, that sort of respect for a place and a host just is not possible when everything is done through a giant corporate medium; and it's also not possible if it's only done for a short period of time, since there's limited accountability.

3-6 months isn't so important, but it's about where things start to be serious. Water pipes leak. Refrigerators break. You get to know people.

Re: Airbnb’s design to live and work anywhere

#384

Post by swah »

quadcore wrote: post #99
xtracto wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>You are at new place, you going to work like 4-6 hours instead of 8-9 hours. I remember some studies mentioning that the real productive time in a daily 8 hr shiFt was 4-6 hours. If that's so, then it's completely doable. Hopefully someone has a fresh link to one of those studies.

Pretty sure 6 hours is even more productive, at least for experienced people.

I also think this is easier to test and the more realistic change. You can be available to clients/meetings from monday to friday....

And that would allow me to see the sunset the whole year. Would try to go to the park with my kid at 4pm every day.

Re: Airbnb’s design to live and work anywhere

#385

Post by hocuspocus »

bitschubser_ wrote: post #376
hocuspocus wrote: post #357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the EU and FoM countries you're still supposed to pay social contributions where you work. There are many complex rules for people who are regularly on the road (like truck drivers, artists on tour) and dispatched workers, but as the average tech worker you can definitely get your employer in trouble if you work more than 20% outside the country of employment. That's why cross-border commuters can't work from home…

The 20% rule only applies to Switzerland and the "Doppelbesteuerungsabkommen" with the neighbor countries or EU. This was the reason I quit my job in switzerland and moved back to germany (without taking a huge pay cut ;), more vacation days and only 35hour/week), now the 183day rule for social contributions and tax apply as long as I live in germany. So now I can work from portugal during winter :)

Not only Switzerland, no, see Luxembourg.

Most employers won't allow what you're doing.

There's no EU-wide 183 day rule for social contributions. If you stay more than 3 months in a country you need to be registered as a posted worker, and there are some legal implications.

Re: Airbnb’s design to live and work anywhere

#386

Post by Traster »

>Most companies don’t do this because of the mountain of complexities with taxes, payroll, and time zone availability, but I hope we can open-source a solution so other companies can offer this flexibility as well.

I had a little chortle at this. This is going to be like building an application that handles timezones for you, but instead of getting timezones wrong, you're committing tax evasion.

Let's say you move to the UK to work for 50 days. Whether you're resident in the UK and therefore have to pay tax will involve myriad complexities including whether your partner is resident in the UK. It's just going to be such a faff, and it depends far more on the individuals circumstances than the company.

Re: Airbnb’s design to live and work anywhere

#387

Post by nivenkos »

helsinkiandrew wrote: post #220
ultimoo wrote: post #166

>Most companies don’t do this because of the mountain of complexities with taxes, payroll, and time zone availability, but I hope we can open-source a solution so other companies can offer this flexibility as well. I think this is a genius growth play for Airbnb. Make it easier for _other_ companies to operate in a similar way so that _their_ employees can travel and live in an... Airbnb! Next, they should lobby to g…

I'm not an immigration/tax lawyer and could be completely wrong but if you're from EU/US/UK/AUS etc I'm fairly sure you can work in another one of those countries for up to 90 days (and sometimes upto 183) without paying tax there or getting a work visa - as long as you're still resident and being paid in your home country under the Visa Waiver program. I've worked in NY offices and got paid in UK (admittedly a while…

> I've worked in NY offices and got paid in UK (

If you're doing ordinary work I think that violates the terms of the B-1/B-2 visa - even if under 90 days.

Re: Airbnb’s design to live and work anywhere

#388

Post by nivenkos »

trash3 wrote: post #276
helsinkiandrew wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not an immigration/tax lawyer and could be completely wrong but if you're from EU/US/UK/AUS etc I'm fairly sure you can work in another one of those countries for up to 90 days (and sometimes upto 183) without paying tax there or getting a work visa - as long as you're still resident and being paid in your home country under the Visa Waiver program. I've worked in NY offices and got paid in UK (admittedly a while…

My understanding is, for an American in a EU country, is they can go and work remotely there for the 90 days as long as they are not conducting business in said country. This means face to face business meetings with clients. When you log in remotely to your job based in the USA and not interacting with people directly during the tourist stay, you're in the clear... I think?

No, if you're performing paid work like that it's still violating the visa.

Just that normally no-one ever checks or cares.

It could be a problem if you later try to become a resident in the same country though.

Re: Airbnb’s design to live and work anywhere

#389

Post by b112 »

helge9210 wrote: post #266
frederikvs wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tangent, but it turns out terms like "third world" are no longer accurate. If memory serves, this is explained in the book Factfulness. A highly recommended read, by the way. A few decades ago, there was a group of wealthy countries, a group of poor countries, and a large gap between them. Back then it made sense to see them as 2 separate groups, first world and third. Right now however, they're no longer separate gr…

First world -- NATO member states Second world -- Warsaw Pact member states Third world -- all other states

Some dude coined these terms, and they caught on for a while during the cold war. Third world typically being of little interest to first and second, and often poor.

So eventually "third world" came to just mean "poor countries". After all, there has now been as much time, post WWII, without the cold war, as there was with one!

Re: Airbnb’s design to live and work anywhere

#390

Post by brynjolf »

nevermindiguess wrote: post #176
dinvlad wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't agree more. Privacy of a small room but having people around when you _need_ them is the best of both worlds.

Start your own company. Get your “boss” office, and roam the staff shared office when you want. Problem solved. Don’t ask your employer to fulfill your capricious dreams.

I don't owe my employer anything. They pay for my services and that is it. If I don't get enough back in terms of pay and comfort I go somewhere else.

Dreams? You are stuck in some weird emotional place.

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