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Google almost convinced me to spend $400 on useless laser treatments

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Re: Google almost convinced me to spend $400 on useless laser treatments

#51

Post by donatj »

warent wrote: post #27
donatj wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would personally rather be involved in the decision making process related to my very existence rather than just told what to do.

But why? Imagine your grandmother who knows nothing about computers or tech asking you about GPUs and which programming language is best because she's curious about buying Bitcoin vs investing in Ethereum. For someone who can't tell the difference between a screen saver and a computer virus, the discussion is meaningless, and only the illusion of control exists

This is such a silly metaphor I am going to ignore it and answer the initial question.

Why? Because the things I personally value in my life and health are not always aligned with the things doctors try to optimize for.

I’ve told the story here a number of times but my tonsils swelled up to the size of grapefruit a number of years ago. After 6 months of steroids and having them drained I wanted them removed. My doctor did not think it was necessary, even though I was living in misery. I ended up just going to a doctor about an hour away and had them out within the week.

Re: Google almost convinced me to spend $400 on useless laser treatments

#52

Post by delecti »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #43
matsemann wrote: post #12

Why are dentists so scammy? In Norway I've seen documentaries about them sending the same people to multiple dentists, and some of them receive wildly different advice. Some of that can be ascribed to some being in the school of pro-active, so they want to fix your teeth at the first glance of issues. But in the end, most of the things being quoted were unnecessary. They all seemed very intent on removing wisdom teet…

Dentists don’t remove wisdom teeth, they just refer you to an oral surgeon. The problem with wisdom teeth is that they increase maintenance requirements, it’s hard to clean back there and they can affect adjacent teeth if they do go bad. So I get why many dentists default suggest to remove them (I still have mine but recently started running into problems at 47).

> Dentists don’t remove wisdom teeth, they just refer you to an oral surgeon

Bit of a meaningless distinction if they're in the same office.

Re: Google almost convinced me to spend $400 on useless laser treatments

#53

Post by warent »

b112 wrote: post #47
warent wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But why? Imagine your grandmother who knows nothing about computers or tech asking you about GPUs and which programming language is best because she's curious about buying Bitcoin vs investing in Ethereum. For someone who can't tell the difference between a screen saver and a computer virus, the discussion is meaningless, and only the illusion of control exists

"What's and adblocker" - my Grandma. Well, you know a phone book? And, you know how if you want to phone someone, you tend to look up their number in a phone book? "Yes" Well, computers are the same. They only know numbers, they're computers after all, and DNS maps the names you see for websites, to numbers, so computers can find the website. "Uh, OK" The adblocker I am going to install, makes it impossible for the c…

Maps names of websites? I don't know what that means. Timmy showed me The Amazon and the egg cooker from there worked wonderfully so I don't want an ad blocker.

Re: Google almost convinced me to spend $400 on useless laser treatments

#54

Post by matsemann »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #43
matsemann wrote: post #12

Why are dentists so scammy? In Norway I've seen documentaries about them sending the same people to multiple dentists, and some of them receive wildly different advice. Some of that can be ascribed to some being in the school of pro-active, so they want to fix your teeth at the first glance of issues. But in the end, most of the things being quoted were unnecessary. They all seemed very intent on removing wisdom teet…

Dentists don’t remove wisdom teeth, they just refer you to an oral surgeon. The problem with wisdom teeth is that they increase maintenance requirements, it’s hard to clean back there and they can affect adjacent teeth if they do go bad. So I get why many dentists default suggest to remove them (I still have mine but recently started running into problems at 47).

> they just refer you to an oral surgeon

Perhaps in the US where they drug you down? Here the dentist just gives you a local anesthetic and pry them out, unless there is something extraordinary. Or perhaps it's a different person? But still the same company getting the money.

Re: Google almost convinced me to spend $400 on useless laser treatments

#55

Post by sueders101 »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #43
matsemann wrote: post #12

Why are dentists so scammy? In Norway I've seen documentaries about them sending the same people to multiple dentists, and some of them receive wildly different advice. Some of that can be ascribed to some being in the school of pro-active, so they want to fix your teeth at the first glance of issues. But in the end, most of the things being quoted were unnecessary. They all seemed very intent on removing wisdom teet…

Dentists don’t remove wisdom teeth, they just refer you to an oral surgeon. The problem with wisdom teeth is that they increase maintenance requirements, it’s hard to clean back there and they can affect adjacent teeth if they do go bad. So I get why many dentists default suggest to remove them (I still have mine but recently started running into problems at 47).

I had a wisdom tooth removed by a dentist within the last 5 years. This was in the United States, for what it’s worth.

Re: Google almost convinced me to spend $400 on useless laser treatments

#56

Post by pc86 »

donatj wrote: post #17
matsemann wrote: post #12

Why are dentists so scammy? In Norway I've seen documentaries about them sending the same people to multiple dentists, and some of them receive wildly different advice. Some of that can be ascribed to some being in the school of pro-active, so they want to fix your teeth at the first glance of issues. But in the end, most of the things being quoted were unnecessary. They all seemed very intent on removing wisdom teet…

I went to a new dentist for a broken filling and they tried to tell me I had 14 cavities and set me down with a finance person to set up a payment plan for how I was going to pay for them over the next 5 years. I went to a second dentist, they fixed the broken filling and said my teeth were otherwise fine. I have the paperwork to back this up. I’d been seeing another dentist for a while and he suddenly wanted to crow…

I went to the same dentist for years as a child. Brushed my teeth once a day, never had any issues at all. All of sudden, during a regular checkup, he told my parents (I was ~15 at the time) that I had 9 cavities and needed fillings. In the 20 years since, I have never had a single cavity. And what a shock, he sold his practice between that procedure and my next checkup. I fully believe he was just pumping up his revenue to increase the sale price, and my parents weren't health literate enough to get a second opinion, and I was too young to know that just because he has a white coat on doesn't mean he's a good person.

Dentists are in the sweet spot where they actually are very important and necessary (as opposed to chiropractors, who are universally charlatans and frauds), but they don't get quite the scrutiny and oversight that physicians are used to. And they make as much as some of the top tier physician specialties. PCPs, OBs, ER, etc. all make less than dentists by and large.

Re: Google almost convinced me to spend $400 on useless laser treatments

#57

Post by Zigurd »

eismcc wrote: post #29

I had almost the exact same experience. Sitting in the chair prepped for a cleaning and the DH dives into this tale about “bad bacteria” and how if it gets into my stomach during the cleaning I could have all kinds of problems including heart disease and so on. Then the follow up treatment plan had other “beneficial” procedures not covered by insurance - platelet treatment to improve healing. I called the insurance c…

Imagine a health care system where the insurance company is, relatively at least, the "good guys." That's how badly off we are.

I personally have a story of a great doctor who went to the effort to try a less-well-known (but still entirely conventional) treatment that resulted in a much better outcome for me. But that just highlighted the fact that great treatment outcomes are a haphazard occurrence in a sea of crud where neither the insurer nor the provider prioritize the patient over maximizing revenue.

What this story illustrates is that paying out of pocket, which presumably put greater market based pressure on health care providers, is even worse.

Not all parts of the economy work bast when least regulated and maximally market driven. Without information from disinterested parties, and without oversight from outside the profit-driven parties, you just get farmed by crooks.

Re: Google almost convinced me to spend $400 on useless laser treatments

#58

Post by willhinsa »

pineconewarrior wrote: post #21
imglorp wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's to stop Glacier from becoming the same as Google for the same reasons? That's a mountain of med ad cash on the table.

Dignity and resolve to their mission statement are what prevent it. Not exactly a strong hand to bet on, but it's better than nothing.

“Don’t Be Evil” turned out to not be better than nothing.

Re: Google almost convinced me to spend $400 on useless laser treatments

#59

Post by specialp »

geek_at wrote: post #4

> In the pre-Szaszian era, medicine was something that happened to you. You would put your health in your doctor's hands and they would unilaterally decide your course of treatment. But in today's patient-centered world, doctors are more like consultants To be honest I've only seen this level of "patient-centered" stuff in the US. Never heard the phrase "Ask your doctor about xy" anywhere but on US TV. Sometimes pret…

> Never heard the phrase "Ask your doctor about xy" anywhere but on US TV. Sometimes pretty hard drugs like psychotropic drugs. When I first head it my response was "WTF, shouldn't the doctor tell you what you need and not the other way around?"

This was the case for many years where it was illegal to have advertisements for prescription medicines. They lifted this like 15 years ago. This was very favorable for the pharmacutical companies as now patients are going to go to doctors and ask exactly that.

What is worse now IMO is these direct to patient ads on social media from Cerebral. They show a lot of common things that people do (Like slack off, not pay attention to something boring), and then encourage them to talk to them for ADHD treatement. While more awareness of mental disorders and health is great, it is a bit scary when people can get convinced they have a disorder that needs pharmaceutical intervention and shop these firms until they get a script.

Re: Google almost convinced me to spend $400 on useless laser treatments

#60

Post by warent »

donatj wrote: post #51
warent wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But why? Imagine your grandmother who knows nothing about computers or tech asking you about GPUs and which programming language is best because she's curious about buying Bitcoin vs investing in Ethereum. For someone who can't tell the difference between a screen saver and a computer virus, the discussion is meaningless, and only the illusion of control exists

This is such a silly metaphor I am going to ignore it and answer the initial question. Why? Because the things I personally value in my life and health are not always aligned with the things doctors try to optimize for. I’ve told the story here a number of times but my tonsils swelled up to the size of grapefruit a number of years ago. After 6 months of steroids and having them drained I wanted them removed. My docto…

You're abandoning the context of the thread. The original comment you replied to was about how the US Healthcare system should be fixed so that you always know doctors are optimized for your needs
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