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Gen Z does not dream of labor

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Re: Gen Z does not dream of labor

#421

Post by refurb »

jason0597 wrote: post #389
moonchrome wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If my kid had this mindset I would consider myself a failure as a parent. I grew up edge of starvation poor, my wife is also from low income family. Both of us are multiples of median income now and can provide a stable home for our son in mid 30s. It took 10 years of doing stupid shit and wasting time because I didn't have support or direction in life. Realistically, if I had better role models for success, I could…

"I suffered so my kids have to learn to suffer too" is not a good line of thinking if we want to improve the world and the economy for the next generation

Removing every obstacle from your child’s life will cripple them for life.

Re: Gen Z does not dream of labor

#422

Post by probIs8 »

bufferoverflow wrote: post #56
burlesona wrote: post #14

> “My dad got a job straight out of high school, saved up, and bought a house in his 20s,” said Anne Dakota, a 21-year-old receptionist from Asheville, North Carolina, who earns minimum wage. “I don’t even think that’s possible for me, at least with the current money I make.” I think this is pretty much the whole story. It’s very hard to be motivated to work when you could save your entire adult life and still strugg…

The problem with this narrative is that the job of the father isn't specified. He could've been a plumber/electrician/welder who would do really well in the current market. These jobs pay well above the minimum wage. The world has changed - simple labor that requires a few days of training doesn't pay much. Most jobs, with few exceptions, that require a decade of training, do pay well. That's why there's such a huge…

The problem is that life isn’t a nice linear distribution of truth the way data heads think.

Continuing to play the “optimize myself based upon some meta game as see it” is not a viable strategy.

There is no science that says Musk is certainly on the right path to human longevity.

None of the rich are infallibly and unassailably correct; pointing at them as correct is an appeal to authority which is ludicrous when we have plenty of evidence to show politics is corrupted such that elites are “too big to fail.”

I’m not obligated to make choices based upon your view of the problem and your solution is more of the same “boot straps”.

This culture is a joke. Moral relativism it is; if my choices screw any of you, oh well. Free market.

Re: Gen Z does not dream of labor

#423

Post by revlolz »

otoburb wrote: post #414
Clubber wrote: post #408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since around the 1960s, we've had large economic forces greatly increasing the supply of labor affecting wages: 1. Women entering the workforce, essentially doubling the labor pool. 2. Immigration - at least a million a year, every year. 3. Globalization - instead of local workforce, many companies can now outsource labor to cheaper countries without regulation. 4. Manufacturing - due to NAFTA, companies who once man…

As more of the American workforce voice their opinions and try to win the WFH battle, #3 will re-accelerate.

The wfh battle won't be impacted. USA Immigration process is absolutely horrendous and hiring remotely essentially concedes their wfh position (role is able to work remotely) . Globalization implies labor will be cheaper opting for remote foreign labor, but there will be constraints to doing so and I suspect the best companies will adapt by capitalizing on wfh as a "benefit" rather than come to conflict with opinions of talent.

Re: Gen Z does not dream of labor

#424

Post by HWR_14 »

jjav wrote: post #378
HWR_14 wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Isn't wealth _always_ more concentrated in higher age brackets? Yes. That's why the quoted factoid talks about "at this stage in their life". If you look back at boomers and genx, they had 4 and 2 times as much wealth as millennials do when they were the same age. > I've heard of millennials not turning up for work because they "didn't feel like working" that day. Why would that matter? Even if that happens sometim…

> If you look back at boomers and genx, they had 4 and 2 times as much wealth as millennials do when they were the same age. Any links to show this? It feels like now is the golden age to enter employment, at least in technical fields. Starting salaries and total comp are through the roof, so anyone having graduated recently can jump start their earnings in their 20s at a very high level. Adjusted for inflation, I've…

You're confusing income and wealth. And also the people earning the most money in a generation with the average.

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2020/10/09/millennials-own-less-tha...

Re: Gen Z does not dream of labor

#425

Post by strikelaserclaw »

imtringued wrote: post #400
burlesona wrote: post #14

> “My dad got a job straight out of high school, saved up, and bought a house in his 20s,” said Anne Dakota, a 21-year-old receptionist from Asheville, North Carolina, who earns minimum wage. “I don’t even think that’s possible for me, at least with the current money I make.” I think this is pretty much the whole story. It’s very hard to be motivated to work when you could save your entire adult life and still strugg…

This is one of the most interesting aspects of our modern economy. We have rockets that go to space. We have nuclear weapons. We have automated industrial facilities. We have advanced healthcare. We have the internet and computers. We have basically everything, except the basics. The reason for that is the same and will stay the same, for the entirety of humanity. Land is a finite resource that must be shared with ot…

Land is finite but there is more than enough if we fix our stupid policies.

Re: Gen Z does not dream of labor

#426

Post by strikelaserclaw »

tomohawk wrote: post #104
burlesona wrote: post #14

> “My dad got a job straight out of high school, saved up, and bought a house in his 20s,” said Anne Dakota, a 21-year-old receptionist from Asheville, North Carolina, who earns minimum wage. “I don’t even think that’s possible for me, at least with the current money I make.” I think this is pretty much the whole story. It’s very hard to be motivated to work when you could save your entire adult life and still strugg…

Unmotivated people were always in this same boat, and always will be. Counter narrative: Nigerians come to the US and have excellent upward mobility. The ones I know are willing to work hard, defer gratification, and sacrifice for their children.

You are literally comparing the cream of the crop vs average people.

Re: Gen Z does not dream of labor

#427

Post by sieabahlpark »

imtringued wrote: post #400
burlesona wrote: post #14

> “My dad got a job straight out of high school, saved up, and bought a house in his 20s,” said Anne Dakota, a 21-year-old receptionist from Asheville, North Carolina, who earns minimum wage. “I don’t even think that’s possible for me, at least with the current money I make.” I think this is pretty much the whole story. It’s very hard to be motivated to work when you could save your entire adult life and still strugg…

This is one of the most interesting aspects of our modern economy. We have rockets that go to space. We have nuclear weapons. We have automated industrial facilities. We have advanced healthcare. We have the internet and computers. We have basically everything, except the basics. The reason for that is the same and will stay the same, for the entirety of humanity. Land is a finite resource that must be shared with ot…

Cool it marx. This just comes off as an angst ridden teenager throwing up his hands shouting "I give up!". Rather than evaluating what careers can get them where they want to be.

Re: Gen Z does not dream of labor

#428

Post by sieabahlpark »

skulk wrote: post #83
bufferoverflow wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with this narrative is that the job of the father isn't specified. He could've been a plumber/electrician/welder who would do really well in the current market. These jobs pay well above the minimum wage. The world has changed - simple labor that requires a few days of training doesn't pay much. Most jobs, with few exceptions, that require a decade of training, do pay well. That's why there's such a huge…

> He could've been a plumber/electrician/welder who would do really well in the current market. False. A plumber making $80k (US median seems to be around $60k) isn't going to be able to save up for a down payment if they're paying a typical mid-sized city's rent (~$1.2k a month). Not to mention housing costs going up during this period of saving up.

Perhaps you would find most plumbers wouldn't live in a city with a rent of 1.2k/mo?

Is that really all your definitive "false" relies on? Hell I know tradesmen that make well over that and live in more rural areas.

Re: Gen Z does not dream of labor

#429

Post by jjav »

HWR_14 wrote: post #424
jjav wrote: post #378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you look back at boomers and genx, they had 4 and 2 times as much wealth as millennials do when they were the same age. Any links to show this? It feels like now is the golden age to enter employment, at least in technical fields. Starting salaries and total comp are through the roof, so anyone having graduated recently can jump start their earnings in their 20s at a very high level. Adjusted for inflation, I've…

You're confusing income and wealth. And also the people earning the most money in a generation with the average. https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2020/10/09/millennials-own-less-tha...

> You're confusing income and wealth.

No, no confusion. You need income to start building wealth (unless you just inherit it).

More specifically, you need enough income over and above the necessities of life, so you can start saving and investing all the extra, in order to build wealth. Time is your friend in investing, so the earlier you can get started the more wealth will grow.

If one can start with an extremely high salary out of school in your early 20s, that gives the opportunity to save a lot and invest it early in life, apply some F.I.R.E. and suddenly the idea of being able to retire before 40 is realistic.

Re: Gen Z does not dream of labor

#430

Post by disgruntledphd2 »

gruez wrote: post #253
notacoward wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Minimum wage jobs are literally the lowest paying jobs a person could possibly find. That is incorrect. There are whole categories of jobs that are exempt from minimum wage, and that doesn't even count gig work.

>There are whole categories of jobs that are exempt from minimum wage I'm presuming you're talking about tipped jobs? It seems reasonable to presume that they earn close to minimum wage when factoring in tips, otherwise people would switch to non-exempt jobs.

Trucking is a big one.
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