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Gen Z does not dream of labor

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Re: Gen Z does not dream of labor

#301

Post by honkycat »

The contract is broken. There is just no hope for the future. Living on the streets can feel like a better option.

Everyone is getting hired on as a contractor and getting shitty health insurance and getting treated like dirt.

Everything is too expensive. College enrollment is dropping down the toilet in a time we cannot hire enough public defenders to run our courts. Hospitals are closing due to lack of doctors.

Health costs will bankrupt you. Rent is INSANE. .2% of the US population is homeless.

Meanwhile the conservatives are whipped into a frenzy over the same "cancel culture" BS the party has been propagandizing for decades.

The 1% are killing the earth and stealing everything you produce and laughing while you bleed in the streets. But yeah, lets obsess over a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of the populations sexual preferences.

The oligarch class of this country would rather let the whole thing burn than compromise ANY of their privilege.

Re: Gen Z does not dream of labor

#302

Post by s1artibartfast »

burlesona wrote: post #14

> “My dad got a job straight out of high school, saved up, and bought a house in his 20s,” said Anne Dakota, a 21-year-old receptionist from Asheville, North Carolina, who earns minimum wage. “I don’t even think that’s possible for me, at least with the current money I make.” I think this is pretty much the whole story. It’s very hard to be motivated to work when you could save your entire adult life and still strugg…

There is a lot of confirmation bias in these stories.

Half the issue is that people have been indoctrinated to expect home ownership and long for some golden age seen on TV that never existed.

Home ownership was never universal in the US. It has been within a few percent of 65% since the 1960s[1]. It was always out of reach for the lowest earners, like those that make minimum wage.

Some people whos parents owned houses will inevitably be unable to afford them themselves. Some people whos parents couldn't will.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Home-ownership_in_the_United_S...

Re: Gen Z does not dream of labor

#303

Post by derevaunseraun »

ghayes wrote: post #78
derevaunseraun wrote: post #15

This article just sounds like stereotyping to me It sounds like the author is just projecting their own values onto the upcoming generation, viz "Gen Z cares about X" when really the author just cherry picks stuff that reaffirms his/her values I refuse to buy into any of this "Gen Z thinks X" or "Millennials think X" BS. The armchair sociologists should go out and actually contribute something worthwhile to society a…

> Naturally, this has major consequences for social attitudes about work — and the viability of performing labor in times of crisis. What sets zoomers apart, according to common narratives, is their determination to be fulfilled and defined by other aspects of life. They expect employers to recognize that and promote policies and benefits that encourage work-life balance. At first, I thought this paragraph was a dire…

> I feel the norm here is for the author to be neutral and use quotes and data to express the point.

I think if we're bullshitting ourselves about (all) news media we can say it's neutral. But really it's just a bunch of assumptions. The appeal of news articles is like a reverse Occam's Razor: the more assumptions the better

But at least the author is a little honest and says "according to common narratives" aka "I'm bullshitting"

Re: Gen Z does not dream of labor

#304

Post by falcolas »

bombcar wrote: post #229
falcolas wrote: post #18

Um, stupid question… Who TF “dreams” of being some billionare’s “labor”? Folks “labor” out of a lack of choice; so they might survive in this world. They labor for the chance to dream.

There was a time in this very country where factory jobs were quite aspirational, that people would move across the country to Detroit for a chance to make Mr Ford a bit richer. Because it promised a good life for their family; and they'd end up having pride in the work they did.

To phrase this slightly differently, you might say they dreamed of a good life for their family; working for Mr. Ford was the best way for an uneducated father to do so.

Is this a dream of labor? IMO, no. The work was the vehicle to their dreams, not the dream itself. Perhaps this is too fine a delineation, but that's my view of it.

Of course, such a job - a job an uneducated man or woman can be the "breadwinner" for their family with - barely exists today. My own father made $40 an hour as a lineman for Mountain Bell (plus a pension), back in the 80's. That exact same job today pays minimum wage, with no retirement benefits.

Re: Gen Z does not dream of labor

#305

Post by jsiaajdsdaa »

I am 30 years old. I graduated with a degree in history. I taught myself how to program, got married to a programmer as well, and now we live in a very desirable area.

My suggestion to anyone who does not dream of labor: if you don't want nice things, that is fine. Nobody is stopping you from living in a low cost of living area that may or may not have its issues.

But if you desire things in life, there should not be a mechanism that magically redistributes these things to you, or makes them available to you at a "fair" price.

No, the only "fair" thing is that you work for the money needed to purchase what you want, and you have the freedom to choose both what you do for work and what you want.

Re: Gen Z does not dream of labor

#306

Post by civilized »

ghusto wrote: post #277
pedrosorio wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have failed to show any reasoning to explain how some millennials getting fired (or not getting fired, apparently, in this last comment) for being "lazy" and "not wanting to work" led that generation to having a much lower share of total wealth compared to previous generations at the same age. As the comment above you stated, the lower decile/quintile performers getting fired (or lower salaries) because of their…

Wut? I asked two questions, one of which was me being genuinely interested to see where I missed the assertion that millennials have "4 and 2 times as much wealth as millennials do when they were the same age". I wondered if it was in the article, because I didn't see it. If you want to talk about reasoning though, I actually did give a reason this could be the case (if indeed it really is), by suggesting it could be…

> In 1989, when baby boomers were around the same age as millennials are today, they controlled 21% of the nation's wealth. That's almost five times as much as what millennials own today.

> Many previous reports have found that millennials are, on average, worse off financially than their parents and grandparents were at the same age, despite being better educated.

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2020/10/09/millennials-own-less-tha...

Re: Gen Z does not dream of labor

#307

Post by beeboop »

throwawayboise wrote: post #197
bufferoverflow wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with this narrative is that the job of the father isn't specified. He could've been a plumber/electrician/welder who would do really well in the current market. These jobs pay well above the minimum wage. The world has changed - simple labor that requires a few days of training doesn't pay much. Most jobs, with few exceptions, that require a decade of training, do pay well. That's why there's such a huge…

Yes. You've never been able to buy a house or raise "a family of four" on minimum wage. Minimum wage was never intended to provide that level of income.

Minimum wage, as part of the 1938 Fair Labor Standards Act, was described as a means to prevent "economic slavery". If you aren't capable of raising four children on it then it's not living up to it's original intention

Re: Gen Z does not dream of labor

#308

Post by mattalex »

zdragnar wrote: post #146
skulk wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> He could've been a plumber/electrician/welder who would do really well in the current market. False. A plumber making $80k (US median seems to be around $60k) isn't going to be able to save up for a down payment if they're paying a typical mid-sized city's rent (~$1.2k a month). Not to mention housing costs going up during this period of saving up.

Growing, but still rural city in the Midwest I visited a few weeks back has decent homes for sale in the 50-80k range. This is not an outlier. Roughly 2/3 of Americans own homes. If you live in an area where homes are priced like luxury investments, then yes, you'll have a hard time buying when you also cannot afford other luxuries. If you live in an area where they are not, it isn't unattainable at all, especially i…

In those places the wages are also considerably lower. The 2/3 are not the people buying, it's the people inheriting existing property: First-Time buyers only make up 33% of home owners.

Re: Gen Z does not dream of labor

#309

Post by JaimeThompson »

syshum wrote: post #244
iso1210 wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> * To be clear this is just basic support like a stable roof over my head, Over the course of a few years that's well into 6 figures of support

I agree, but I struggled with the wording to covey that I did not come from a wealthy family with a trust fund or something like that We are a "normal" midwest 2 parent household, in the 50th percentile of income band for the region. My over arching point is there has to be some personal accountability. it is easy to be a victim, blame the system, blame rich people, blame everyone but yourself for your own circumstan…

>it is easy to be a victim

When you are one major accident or illness away from losing everything you have saved is kind of makes sense to blame those who have fought so hard to make sure typical people don't have access to effective health care at a reasonable cost.

Re: Gen Z does not dream of labor

#310

Post by rtlfe »

true_religion wrote: post #275
ceeplusplus wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From Kaiser's 2020 survey on healthcare plans, the average worker contribution for HMO/PPO plans for a family was $5000-6000/yr [1]. These are not high deductible plans (those are specifically broken out) so they're going to be pretty good insurance, especially PPO. So $400/mo is only underestimating the true cost by about $100/mo. You can't use ACA marketplace prices to judge what your average worker is paying. > sp…

They aren’t really talking about day care, but a nanny who only takes care of your own children. It’s what’s comparable to having a stay at home parent.

I wish. Nanny would be probably double that where I live.
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