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Gen Z does not dream of labor

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Re: Gen Z does not dream of labor

#71

Post by poutine »

MisterBastahrd wrote: post #40
vasco wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's also a bit of over romanticism regarding being depressed and everything being shit which I think throws boomers a curve ball. They see the existential dread response to lack of prospects and think people are like this because they don't have avocado toasts, when the only way out is to breadth first search for Google. If you don't want that, I don't know what your prospects are nowadays coming out of universit…

The average house sold in 1946 cost $5.25K. The median salary at the time was $3K. The average house sold today costs $374K. The median salary is $51K. You can argue that those houses that were sold back then were smaller, but they were also made of vastly better materials than modern home construction, and it's not like people even have the opportunity of buying those smaller homes unless they want to live in a slum…

While housing has indeed gotten more expensive you can't compare absolute prices.

First you're getting a vastly different product today than in 1946. Consumer demands are far higher too.

Also to compare affordability the metric for most people would be the median percentage case of mortgage payments vs the persons take home pay. When measured this way it's been hovering around 30% for the past 40 years in the UK.

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/why-house-prices-unlikely-cra...

Re: Gen Z does not dream of labor

#72

Post by jseliger »

burlesona wrote: post #14

> “My dad got a job straight out of high school, saved up, and bought a house in his 20s,” said Anne Dakota, a 21-year-old receptionist from Asheville, North Carolina, who earns minimum wage. “I don’t even think that’s possible for me, at least with the current money I make.” I think this is pretty much the whole story. It’s very hard to be motivated to work when you could save your entire adult life and still strugg…

It is interesting to me that relatively few people respond to this situation—housing constraints leading to high prices (https://www.aeaweb.org/articles?id=10.1257/mac.20170388)—by working to remove the regulatory constraints that prevent people from being able to buy or rent housing units.

Re: Gen Z does not dream of labor

#73

Post by ghusto »

I'm torn on this.

On the one hand, I'm tempted to say; life's hard, it's always been hard, and you're only feeling vindicated now because the Internet makes it easy to connect with other people who share or support your views — so grow up.

On the other hand, I'm down with the sentiment 100%. Live to live. I get that, and I support it. Why work towards a career if the structure that supports that career has only been put there because it benefits people who are already at the top? Drop out and live your life on your own terms.

I guess the middle ground would be: Be ambitious, have goals, have aspirations, but only when they support your happiness and the happiness of those around you. In other words; live life on your own terms, but make those terms less shallow. I think this is different to just living for yourself, for one important reason; it is more likely to benefit society, and therefore _you_ in the long run.

Re: Gen Z does not dream of labor

#74

Post by seoaeu »

Barrin92 wrote: post #31
coffeefirst wrote: post #16

I don’t see how this is significantly different than ever prior counterculture disillusioned with the culture and economic expectations they inherited. The only thing they need is a new style of music to go with it.

because the counterculture of old actually had a "counter" part often with significant impact and organization. In Japan in 68 and 69 students shut down much of the university system for over a year[1]. And even though eventually dying down these movements had lasting impact on culture. It's where green political movements were born, sexual rights for women were gained, and so on. Gen Z 'counterculture' doesn't have…

“This generation’s counterculture isn’t like past generations’ counter culture” has to be one of the funniest takes I’ve seen on all of this. You’re right! But surely the same could be said of most prior countercultures as well

Re: Gen Z does not dream of labor

#75

Post by [deleted] »

bufferoverflow wrote: post #56
burlesona wrote: post #14

> “My dad got a job straight out of high school, saved up, and bought a house in his 20s,” said Anne Dakota, a 21-year-old receptionist from Asheville, North Carolina, who earns minimum wage. “I don’t even think that’s possible for me, at least with the current money I make.” I think this is pretty much the whole story. It’s very hard to be motivated to work when you could save your entire adult life and still strugg…

The problem with this narrative is that the job of the father isn't specified. He could've been a plumber/electrician/welder who would do really well in the current market. These jobs pay well above the minimum wage. The world has changed - simple labor that requires a few days of training doesn't pay much. Most jobs, with few exceptions, that require a decade of training, do pay well. That's why there's such a huge…

[deleted]

Re: Gen Z does not dream of labor

#76

Post by rco8786 »

bufferoverflow wrote: post #56
burlesona wrote: post #14

> “My dad got a job straight out of high school, saved up, and bought a house in his 20s,” said Anne Dakota, a 21-year-old receptionist from Asheville, North Carolina, who earns minimum wage. “I don’t even think that’s possible for me, at least with the current money I make.” I think this is pretty much the whole story. It’s very hard to be motivated to work when you could save your entire adult life and still strugg…

The problem with this narrative is that the job of the father isn't specified. He could've been a plumber/electrician/welder who would do really well in the current market. These jobs pay well above the minimum wage. The world has changed - simple labor that requires a few days of training doesn't pay much. Most jobs, with few exceptions, that require a decade of training, do pay well. That's why there's such a huge…

It seems like you’re just confirming the narrative

Re: Gen Z does not dream of labor

#77

Post by rtlfe »

jolux wrote: post #54
burlesona wrote: post #14

> “My dad got a job straight out of high school, saved up, and bought a house in his 20s,” said Anne Dakota, a 21-year-old receptionist from Asheville, North Carolina, who earns minimum wage. “I don’t even think that’s possible for me, at least with the current money I make.” I think this is pretty much the whole story. It’s very hard to be motivated to work when you could save your entire adult life and still strugg…

I’m a gen Zer (albeit on the older side) and I don’t feel this way about work. Probably depends what field you’re in, I quite like being a programmer.

> I quite like being a programmer.

This job is truly an anomaly. There are very few careers where you can earn top 1% income with no degree, no physical exertion, under 8 hours a day "on the clock", the freedom to quit any time and have multiple new offers within days, etc, etc.

Re: Gen Z does not dream of labor

#78

Post by ghayes »

derevaunseraun wrote: post #15

This article just sounds like stereotyping to me It sounds like the author is just projecting their own values onto the upcoming generation, viz "Gen Z cares about X" when really the author just cherry picks stuff that reaffirms his/her values I refuse to buy into any of this "Gen Z thinks X" or "Millennials think X" BS. The armchair sociologists should go out and actually contribute something worthwhile to society a…

> Naturally, this has major consequences for social attitudes about work — and the viability of performing labor in times of crisis. What sets zoomers apart, according to common narratives, is their determination to be fulfilled and defined by other aspects of life. They expect employers to recognize that and promote policies and benefits that encourage work-life balance.

At first, I thought this paragraph was a direct quote, as it definitely shows the author willing to make fairly strong claims on her own account. I feel the norm here is for the author to be neutral and use quotes and data to express the point.

Re: Gen Z does not dream of labor

#79

Post by PragmaticPulp »

burlesona wrote: post #14

> “My dad got a job straight out of high school, saved up, and bought a house in his 20s,” said Anne Dakota, a 21-year-old receptionist from Asheville, North Carolina, who earns minimum wage. “I don’t even think that’s possible for me, at least with the current money I make.” I think this is pretty much the whole story. It’s very hard to be motivated to work when you could save your entire adult life and still strugg…

> > “My dad got a job straight out of high school, saved up, and bought a house in his 20s,” said Anne Dakota, a 21-year-old receptionist from Asheville, North Carolina, who earns minimum wage. “I don’t even think that’s possible for me, at least with the current money I make.”

This anecdote is presented as the norm, but it’s actually far from it.

“Minimum wage” is the tip off that the journalist went out searching for the most extreme anecdote they could find. For all the talk about minimum wage jobs, only around 1% of jobs actually pay federal minimum wage. That number is falling rapidly as it becomes trivial for anyone to walk into a $15/hr job with benefits almost anywhere except the smallest towns.

Of course it’s not possible for someone earning minimum wage to save up money and buy a house in their 20s. Minimum wage jobs are literally the lowest paying jobs a person could possibly find. Anchoring expectations that no job should exist unless it pays enough to buy a house in your 20s in any city you want is blatantly unrealistic.

Re: Gen Z does not dream of labor

#80

Post by hiptobecubic »

deathanatos wrote: post #58
closeparen wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Asheville is an increasingly trendy and prestigious resort town for very rich people from all over. It is not a place I would expect anyone to buy their first home.

> ______ is an increasingly trendy and prestigious ____ town for very rich people […] It is not a place I would expect anyone to buy their first home. I've heard this about pretty much every place, at this point. ("Move somewhere cheaper!" … and get "geographic multiplier"'d into a lower salary, and you're right back where you started.)

I am currently remote, but considering tactically moving to NYC because the increase in pay is better than the increase in rent / col. It serves no benefit to the company (even harms it) but that's HR for you.
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