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No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

robkhenderson.substack.com

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Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#701

Post by paradox242 »

fwip wrote: post #683
the_solenoid wrote: post #410

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree - and will take it one step further: he misses the root causes of "instability", and I bet it tracks directly with the gutting of the middle class starting in the 70's, and/or the same flat-lining of wages (not keeping up with inflation etc) despite huge increases in productivity in about the same time period. Money is a huge stressor in relationships. Misogyny is still a huge thing (to my utter surprise hone…

It's absolutely wild to me that Rob quotes: > Lack of money is certainly a contributing cause, as we will see, but rarely the only factor. It is usually the young father’s criminal behavior, the spells of incarceration that so often follow, a pattern of intimate violence, his chronic infidelity, and an inability to leave drugs and alcohol alone that cause relationships to falter and die. Without seeming to make any s…

Did you grow poor or have friends from poor backgrounds? I saw lots of drug use, stealing, petty vandalism and violence, and little if any of it had to do with their trying to survive in a material sense. There are different norms around which behaviors grant status, and this is the primary driver behind this kind of behavior in my experience.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#702

Post by rayiner »

the_solenoid wrote: post #410
jcstk wrote: post #132

I can appreciate this perspective because I used to have it. I even wrote a similar blog post 10 years ago - it was on the top of HN and the comment section was a beautiful shitshow. For me, this perspective was a good story to tell myself - it justified why I was only investing my time in “work”, and validated me for having “come so far”. Over time, I have reflected and shifted this perspective. That reflection cent…

I agree - and will take it one step further: he misses the root causes of "instability", and I bet it tracks directly with the gutting of the middle class starting in the 70's, and/or the same flat-lining of wages (not keeping up with inflation etc) despite huge increases in productivity in about the same time period. Money is a huge stressor in relationships. Misogyny is still a huge thing (to my utter surprise hone…

How does a “flat lining” of wages of cause family stability to go down? And how do you explain high levels of family stability in countries that are much poorer?

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#703

Post by cercatrova »

ensan wrote: post #547
ss108 wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a shit article where the author lightly blames what one would generally call "elites" for the stupidity and moral ineptitude of lower-class people who avowedly hate elites and who make it a point of hating everything the "elites" like anyways.

"the stupidity and moral ineptitude of lower-class people who avowedly hate elites" I have never encountered an individual who claims to hate the "elite". And I for one will not complain if someone hates a person who holds your classist views. And what do you mean by "elite" anyways? If people dislike those in the position of authority, especially politicians, they generally have very good reasons for that. To quote…

> I have never encountered an individual who claims to hate the "elite".

Go on reddit, the refrains of "eat the rich" are quite common. People there hate the rich and the elite.

That being said, poor people are not "stupid" or have "moral ineptitude." They're just poor, something that those who have never been poor will not understand. It's a victim blaming mentality.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#704

Post by fzeroracer »

e2le wrote: post #440
Aunche wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO outrage about incels is just a socially acceptable way to bully. It's a way to find an excuse to express their superiority over others while masquerading it with concern over women's safety. You're never going to see someone mock a successful man who beats his wife.

It's confusing to me that it's socially acceptable these days to bully those who lack a sexual partner.

It's not, and you're conflating the term incel with people whom lack a sexual partner. Incel is a label that people apply to themselves that carries a whole lot of baggage, anger and a mixture of racism/sexism.

People that lack a partner are not incels, but incels lack a partner. Please spend a few minutes looking up what an incel actually is and what it means.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#705

Post by polishdude20 »

d23 wrote: post #44

Do people find this stuff compelling? Rank speculation and confident assertion with minimal substantive backing? I’d find this statement equally compelling (which is to say, not at all): > Since we stopped using horses as a primary means of transportation, men’s sense of self worth has diminished. Riding a horse carried a lot of high status connotations: drive, masculinity, towering above the land, and man’s dominati…

Yeah this horse line is a stretch.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#706

Post by rayiner »

fwip wrote: post #683
the_solenoid wrote: post #410

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree - and will take it one step further: he misses the root causes of "instability", and I bet it tracks directly with the gutting of the middle class starting in the 70's, and/or the same flat-lining of wages (not keeping up with inflation etc) despite huge increases in productivity in about the same time period. Money is a huge stressor in relationships. Misogyny is still a huge thing (to my utter surprise hone…

It's absolutely wild to me that Rob quotes: > Lack of money is certainly a contributing cause, as we will see, but rarely the only factor. It is usually the young father’s criminal behavior, the spells of incarceration that so often follow, a pattern of intimate violence, his chronic infidelity, and an inability to leave drugs and alcohol alone that cause relationships to falter and die. Without seeming to make any s…

Poverty isn’t the cause of crime. People were objectively poorer in the 1950s, even in the lower classes, and people in developing countries are much poorer than even poor Americans.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#707

Post by gameswithgo »

jcstk wrote: post #132

I can appreciate this perspective because I used to have it. I even wrote a similar blog post 10 years ago - it was on the top of HN and the comment section was a beautiful shitshow. For me, this perspective was a good story to tell myself - it justified why I was only investing my time in “work”, and validated me for having “come so far”. Over time, I have reflected and shifted this perspective. That reflection cent…

No post body was provided.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#708

Post by nightvoomer »

rayiner wrote: post #702
the_solenoid wrote: post #410

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree - and will take it one step further: he misses the root causes of "instability", and I bet it tracks directly with the gutting of the middle class starting in the 70's, and/or the same flat-lining of wages (not keeping up with inflation etc) despite huge increases in productivity in about the same time period. Money is a huge stressor in relationships. Misogyny is still a huge thing (to my utter surprise hone…

How does a “flat lining” of wages of cause family stability to go down ? And how do you explain high levels of family stability in countries that are much poorer?

Community.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#709

Post by rayiner »

giantg2 wrote: post #203

Wow, lots of controversial things in here. "You put a guy in chaotic and impoverished circumstances. And then you decide not to expect anything out of him. How can anyone possibly believe this will lead to anything other than disaster?" I think the author has neglected a hugely important factor in this. Sure, what others expect of you can influence you greatly. But what one expects for themselves is a huge factor too…

What are real wages like in lower middle class America compared to Asian or African countries that have a fraction of the rate of kids being raised without both parents?

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#710

Post by cat_plus_plus »

So let's just blame men for everything? True, historically men have been expected to bring home the bacon, protect their families from violence and disrespect and discipline sons who may otherwise get in trouble, and that is missing nowadays. But women ALSO had responsibilities - making home pleasant even on modest means, well behaved children that are a pleasure to come home to after a long day of work, encouraging good behavior and investment in family from a man through enthusiastic appreciation. The ideal of Western feminism is independence, but families work on healthy mutual interdependence in the face of statistically different - though individually variable - gender traits.
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