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No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

robkhenderson.substack.com

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Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#591

Post by ss108 »

ensan wrote: post #547
ss108 wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a shit article where the author lightly blames what one would generally call "elites" for the stupidity and moral ineptitude of lower-class people who avowedly hate elites and who make it a point of hating everything the "elites" like anyways.

"the stupidity and moral ineptitude of lower-class people who avowedly hate elites" I have never encountered an individual who claims to hate the "elite". And I for one will not complain if someone hates a person who holds your classist views. And what do you mean by "elite" anyways? If people dislike those in the position of authority, especially politicians, they generally have very good reasons for that. To quote…

"I have never encountered an individual who claims to hate the 'elite'"

I don't know what to tell you there. Go talk to more individuals? Go read some right-wing propaganda (e.g. almost anything that comes out Josh Hawley's mouth, or certain off-bench remarks from Justices Alito and Thomas--and yes, all of these individuals are also "elite", but because their views are in the minority among elites, they can't like they aren't "elite" and rail against the other elites).

Go see who likes them, how it plays with that base, and see also how it plays with the far-left camp (e.g. Bernie, who I generally like but who has a lot wrong, and AOC) too, though they may use different language. It's a pretty popular meme (I wouldn't call it worthy of being labeled an "idea") among certain segments of the population, sometimes for different reasons.

"And what do you mean by 'elite' anyways? If people dislike those in the position of authority, especially politicians, they generally have very good reasons for that."

I was not thinking of politicians, but, fwiw, I would say blind/reflexive hatred of politicians is a prime example of a kind of idiotic and adolescent trend in American culture to just hate traditional authority figures.

There are probably plenty of good reasons to hate them, sure, but ask people who say things like "oh yeah they're all corrupt" how they know that, what evidence they have, whether they can list the past several major corruption scandals, how corruption here compares to other countries, etc, and they can't do it at all.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#592

Post by fallingknife »

hotpotamus wrote: post #518
dudul wrote: post #463

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you think it's more common with conservatives? You said it yourself, cultural wars are just distraction to keep the elite in power and talk about everything except classes. People in power don't care about conservatives or liberals, they just pick a team and play the game.

Which party has been dedicated to cutting the taxes of the wealthy for decades? As the saying goes, show me your budget and I'll show you your values.

Which party is dedicated to importing massive numbers of cheap workers from other countries to allow business owners to undercut working class wages and pocket more profits?

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#593

Post by the_only_law »

cebert wrote: post #71
gryson wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US has a low (and falling) birthrate. Not quite as low as South Korea, but certainly not high by any means.

The US is likely fine because our southern border is porous and anyone can walk right in. I don’t see any indication that this will change. The benefit is even if the US birth rate is declining, we have an influx of younger individuals who can help keep the economy going.

> The US is likely fine because our southern border is porous and anyone can walk right in

Go ahead try it.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#594

Post by wpietri »

BlargMcLarg wrote: post #565
wpietri wrote: post #448

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this comment could be longer, but I think it has an in important point. The article ignores a huge change over that time period: increasing freedom for women from patriarchy. Any sort of "staying with the mother of their kids" argument has to acknowledge we can't just turn the clock back. The truth then and now is that a lot of men were not and are not good partners. (Anybody who doubts me should spend time r…

>Young men do need plenty more education and pressure on how to do it right. People in general need more education on how to do it right. Women aren't exactly free of guilt on this. >Anybody who doubts me should spend time reading Am I the Asshole. This only confirms men are more often outed as poor male partners. A forum full of anecdotes being labeled does not imply a large population of bad male partners. That's a…

Ah yes, think of the men!

Single moms outnumber single dads 5:1. People in general need more education, but much more the men. Partriarchy left women holding the bag for a lot of things, so they were more prepared for a post-patriarchy world. Men will need more explicit support in learning to adapt to their new societal role.

> This only confirms men are more often outed as poor male partners.

Technically true, but unless you have some data to suggest it's meaningful, I think that's just a distraction. Reddit is 2/3rds male [1], so if anything we would expect more stories to be about bad women. But in the real world, women initiate the bulk of divorces [2]. And men are more likely to be the kind of bad partner who, say, turns murdery [3]. So I think my inference that men are on average the worse partner and need more help is reasonable.

[1] https://www.alphr.com/demographics-reddit/

[2] https://www.whitleylawfirmpc.com/3-reasons-why-women-initiat...

[3] https://www.womensaid.org.uk/information-support/what-is-dom...

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#595

Post by lolinder »

sanderjd wrote: post #576
rayiner wrote: post #3

This is an important read, especially this part. > This highly educated and affluent person prioritized stability for her own children. But refused to publicly endorse this value so that less fortunate children could also benefit from family stability. I’m from a rigidly socially conservative immigrant family that professes fashionably liberal values in public—imposing a double standard between “us” and “Americans.”…

I think the problem with the whole argument being made in this article is exhibited in your pull quote as well: working class people don't know or care what that "highly educated and affluent person" thinks about anything. It is not then clear to me how that person's stance on this - which I don't share - could possibly be the cause of the problems of people who don't care what that person thinks.

It's not the opinions of any one person that matter, it's the expressed opinion of society as a whole, which is made up of the expressed opinions of every individual. It has to start with someone, but I don't think anyone here is under the illusion that one person speaking out is sufficient to alter the culture.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#596

Post by coryrc »

xyzzyz wrote: post #438
coryrc wrote: post #381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There were fewer deportations per year under TFG than Obama. Not sure if you've checked what happened to living costs and housing during that administration, because they sure went up a lot.

The parent was asking about “policy proposals ”. I imagine lack of success of President Trump in implementing his proposals has made many of his voters unhappy. That said, if you don’t focus on deportations, but instead look at the entire picture, note that the total net illegal immigrant flow was significantly lower during President Trump than it was during President Obama, and has jumped through the roof as soon as…

> I imagine lack of success of President Trump in implementing his proposals has made many of his voters unhappy

Somehow that hasn't happened.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#597

Post by fallingknife »

lkey wrote: post #277
rayiner wrote: post #3

This is an important read, especially this part. > This highly educated and affluent person prioritized stability for her own children. But refused to publicly endorse this value so that less fortunate children could also benefit from family stability. I’m from a rigidly socially conservative immigrant family that professes fashionably liberal values in public—imposing a double standard between “us” and “Americans.”…

> Watching and hearing about the family instability in these communities is heartbreaking. Half or more of everyone’s parents are divorced. The kids float around seeking stability and the adults can’t provide it. You seem to be attributing the cause of this to 'Telling men and boys it's cool and fine to divorce' and not attributing to say... declining material and social capitol in the lower four quintiles of wealth…

> You seem to be attributing the cause of this to 'Telling men and boys it's cool and fine to divorce' and not attributing to say... declining material and social capitol in the lower four quintiles of wealth that have created pressure that exacerbates marriage instability and numerous other social ills

Considering that the divorce rate has increased massively while poverty has decreased, it is nearly impossible that the cause of marriage instability is poverty.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#598

Post by sanderjd »

Ensorceled wrote: post #249
lettergram wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> America so thoroughly that the head of the “conservative” party is a three-times-divorced man of little character. I think that’s an interesting point. The political window has shifted further and further left in recent years. The fact is he’s not the head of the conservative moment, he’s the head of the Republican Party. There are differing factions and he promised something most in the party could support. For ex…

> The political window has shifted further and further left in recent years. As an outside observer, I'm Canadian, this viewpoint of many Americans that their politics has shifted "left" is flabbergasting. The SC has definitely shifted hard right and Roe v. Wade is essentially overturned, or being, overturned in many states. "Don't say gay" and other anti LGBQT+ laws are being passed. I feel you are using a very "tru…

The culture has shifted fairly significantly left while a backlash to that, in conjunction with a bunch of weird details about our system of government and just the random timing of elderly people passing away, has shifted political power significantly to the right.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#599

Post by zozbot234 »

atq2119 wrote: post #577
zozbot234 wrote: post #443

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yes, a close, loving, supportive family is hugely important, for everyone in it. Telling people that it doesn't matter if they divorce and that they should put their own short-term happiness first and foremost is tantamount to denying this. And when it's the liberal upper class doing this, they're pretty much pulling up the ladder to effective social cohesion behind themselves, even as they hypocritically enjoy its…

> Telling people that it doesn't matter if they divorce and that they should put their own short-term happiness first and foremost That's a straw man, though. Nobody relevant is telling people that. You're either not listening to the primary sources and are getting a distorted representation by politically motivated secondary sources, or your own biases are clouding your understanding when you're reading the primary…

The BLM movement explicitly supports "dismantling of the nuclear family structure" as one of their goals. How many progressives have voiced support for BLM? How many have bothered to denounce and disclaim support for these peculiar aims, that seem to have remarkably little to do with benefiting Black lives, and that quite a few Blacks would themselves oppose?
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