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No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

robkhenderson.substack.com

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Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#511

Post by nottorp »

dasudasu wrote: post #293
nottorp wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US thinkers have no idea what a social safety net is so they draw their conclusions without taking that option into account.

To think that the US has no social safety is also a common trope. Food stamps, medicaid, public & section 8 housing, SSDI, EI, etc. in combination with the unique opportunities allowed by American society to get back on your feet (low unemployment and barrier to entry). Americans in general have no idea how "humble" life can be for the European lower classes. Fun fact: Canada and the US have about the same homelessne…

> Americans in general have no idea how "humble" life can be for the European lower classes.

Don't think said lower classes live in fear of a "major health event".

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#512

Post by giantg2 »

influx wrote: post #480
giantg2 wrote: post #401

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if you have expectations, many opportunities may be gone. Just look at the lack of non-college work in the US that pays a living wage. Now try to get one of those jobs if you're competing against others who have no criminal history if you have a minor one. I have a job as a dev and even I'm tired of this treadmill. Taxes, COL, healthcare, etc. No time/money to do the things I want. No real career, just a job. Li…

What are you talking about? Just try and find a plumber, carpenter or contractor that isn’t backlogged for months. There’s a ton of really good blue collar jobs, often where you are your own boss. Unfortunately, society is pushing everyone to college.

This is really only true for certain locations. Also, to be your own boss means you have to understand how to obtain the licenses, start the business, etc. Many of the people who could do the actual job may not be able to the overhead to be their own boss. The companies do background checks and most don't really train. The overall percentage of these blue collar jobs are a much lower percentage than they used to be. So there's more competition. Good luck getting hired with even a minor criminal record or it you don't have a driver's license.

I would quit my job today if I could make $100k

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#513

Post by nitrogen »

camgunz wrote: post #375
rayiner wrote: post #3

This is an important read, especially this part. > This highly educated and affluent person prioritized stability for her own children. But refused to publicly endorse this value so that less fortunate children could also benefit from family stability. I’m from a rigidly socially conservative immigrant family that professes fashionably liberal values in public—imposing a double standard between “us” and “Americans.”…

I think the post fails to make the case that male behavior (or the culture that induces male behavior) is the root cause of divorce rates. - The rise in imprisonment is basically entirely a result of the War on Drugs, aka carceral slavery. - The problems with employment are that unions have disappeared, jobs are hyperexploitative (a better measure than the unemployment rate here is the Social Security Disability rate…

Many of us have lost a sense of community and place we once had. I don't know what about our culture has done this, but it's bad.

The marketing, political, religious, and cultural industries that divide and conquer us into ever finer slices of demographic identities to sell us things have convinced everyone that they can only be themselves by emphasizing their irreconcilable differences with others. In doing so they have robbed us of any sense of common identity.

It's no longer acceptable to be thought of as part of broad category A where everyone has different interests and affinities. Instead now, we have to be exclusively XYZ and W, and nobody else could possibly understand the XYZW perspective.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#514

Post by psyc »

hammock wrote: post #303
s1artibartfast wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The funny part about expectations is they don't have to match reality to have an impact. If you raise a child telling them they have no opportunity, their chance of success is quite low.

That may work for a single generation. And the child soon grows up and meets reality. We are in a situation that has been developing for multiple generations Edit: I agree with the replies and I’m not one for shirking personal responsibility to change your lot in life, nor not instilling an eye for opportunity in children. We are at a point where more may be necessary

I've thought about this a lot. It's so much more than "every generation thinks the next is awful" - that's too glib. By my count we've had 3 consecutive generations disaffected, disillusioned, and alienated. It's as if, figuratively speaking, everyone born after 1970 is a 'latchkey kid' because the parent archetype still hasn’t come home or sobered up yet.

Even still, it's best to teach kids that they have more say than any other individual about their own future, and that anything is possible. If you must teach them that the world is hostile, you must also teach them how to beat it. You wouldn't refrain from teaching them tiger evasion just because the tiger is probably going to get them.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#515

Post by MisterBastahrd »

> This highly educated and affluent person prioritized stability for her own children. But refused to publicly endorse this value so that less fortunate children could also benefit from family stability.

Well, like most forms of discrimination, THAT'S THE POINT. These people aren't blindly going through life, discriminating without a cause. They know damned good and well what they're actually doing and will use the current state of things as justification for why they should continue the trend. In other words, conservatism. And no, it doesn't really matter what they call themselves or who they vote for, because money speaks louder than ballots.

Most parents are well aware that their kids aren't inherently special past their genetic connection. But if you can automatically cut 30-70% of the population out of the competition for the opportunities you crave for your own kid, then that works to your benefit.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#516

Post by chasd00 »

kQq9oHeAz6wLLS wrote: post #298
galfarragem wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great comment. I would just make a minor but relevant change, everybody is responsible here. "And creating a culture where men and women are told it’s okay not to do those things creates harm."

The article is specifically about men having children with women, then leaving the family by one means or another. While your inclusivity works in many places, the problem here is well defined as young men not striving for family stability.

Well why should they? All the hear every day is how they’re all monsters and the root of every social injustice.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#517

Post by filmgirlcw »

alsetmusic wrote: post #423
irrational wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also, divorce sucks when kids are involved, I don't think anyone on earth, left or right, would dispute that. Tons of people dispute this. The thinking is that people staying married when they don’t want to stay married is worse for kids than people getting divorced and creating two separate households the kids float between. I don’t agree with this thinking, mostly because I’m the product of divorce that saw the a…

> Divorce is rarely the answer and does terrible things to children. My mother was shocked that I supported my parents' divorce. She couldn't imagine how I wasn't devastated. They screamed at each other frequently. They'd stayed together "for the kids," and that was a nightmare.

Right. I don’t think it’s divorce that does terrible things to children but bad relationships. Whether that relationship ends in divorce or not, growing up in a household full of toxicity and people fighting and hating each other and full of animosity is what is terrible. And yes, that often leads to divorce. But it’s the toxicity that is terrible, not the act itself.

(My parents are not divorced and have had a quite good, tho imperfect, marriage so I can’t speak for either scenario. But this is what I gather knowing and observing people who grew up with parents who divorced or remained married while miserable and hating each other.)

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#518

Post by hotpotamus »

dudul wrote: post #463
mola wrote: post #390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This! Most of the flaming identity cultural wars are basically a distraction. The problem as always is class, and elites vieing for control. Yes progressive values are a thing, but its media representation is nuts, on purpose. The it's us vs them narrative leads to subjucating all values to pure "survival". This promotes long term irrationality. The powers at be know this and capitalize it. On both "sides". In my bia…

Why do you think it's more common with conservatives? You said it yourself, cultural wars are just distraction to keep the elite in power and talk about everything except classes. People in power don't care about conservatives or liberals, they just pick a team and play the game.

Which party has been dedicated to cutting the taxes of the wealthy for decades? As the saying goes, show me your budget and I'll show you your values.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#519

Post by throwaway894345 »

dragonwriter wrote: post #473
camgunz wrote: post #456

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think the left thinks of privilege solely as racial or gender privilege. Here's an article on "everydayfeminism.com" about the broad view progressives take on it: https://everydayfeminism.com/2014/05/income-vs-wealth/

> I don't think the left thinks of privilege solely as racial or gender privilege. The left doesn't thing of privilege as even primarily racial or gender privilege. (The people that do are centrists; the actual left centers class privilege, though there are leftists who see race/gender issues as important secondary/connected issues to class issues.)

You have it exactly backwards. Centrists center class privilege while leftists center race/gender/etc privilege. For example, when discussing racial inequality, leftists will tend to argue “disparity thus discrimination” while centrists (and moderates of all stripes, really) will argue that the mechanism is classist but it manifests as a disparity because the class distributions aren’t uniform across races.

I certainly agree that historically leftists were very concerned about class, but that hasn’t been the popular analysis among American leftists for a decade.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#520

Post by chmod600 »

irrational wrote: post #326
lkey wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Watching and hearing about the family instability in these communities is heartbreaking. Half or more of everyone’s parents are divorced. The kids float around seeking stability and the adults can’t provide it. You seem to be attributing the cause of this to 'Telling men and boys it's cool and fine to divorce' and not attributing to say... declining material and social capitol in the lower four quintiles of wealth…

> Also, divorce sucks when kids are involved, I don't think anyone on earth, left or right, would dispute that. Tons of people dispute this. The thinking is that people staying married when they don’t want to stay married is worse for kids than people getting divorced and creating two separate households the kids float between. I don’t agree with this thinking, mostly because I’m the product of divorce that saw the a…

"don't want to stay married" is worth exploring. Why don't they want to?

Maybe a part of that is attitude and culture and values, and not so much unreconcilable problems. If they felt strongly about providing for their children together, and that was highly respected by society, maybe the problems they have would look trivial.

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