Divorce is a legal proceeding. The Government is ipso facto involved, and even more so when kids enter the picture since otherwise there would be no one to stand for their interest.
> and even more so when kids enter the picture since otherwise there would be no one to stand for their interest.
The situation in my case was so extreme that my father ended up with custody, but from what I’ve heard from others it doesn’t sound like the government is standing for the interests of the children. The courts for example, in my fathers parents’ divorce, gave custody go him and his siblings to his broke, alcoholic mother instead of his mentally and financially stable father.
Even if you have expectations, many opportunities may be gone. Just look at the lack of non-college work in the US that pays a living wage. Now try to get one of those jobs if you're competing against others who have no criminal history if you have a minor one. I have a job as a dev and even I'm tired of this treadmill. Taxes, COL, healthcare, etc. No time/money to do the things I want. No real career, just a job. Li…
What are you talking about? Just try and find a plumber, carpenter or contractor that isn’t backlogged for months. There’s a ton of really good blue collar jobs, often where you are your own boss. Unfortunately, society is pushing everyone to college.
It's possible that most people just dont want to be plumbers, right? Maybe they would like a chance to do something they think is more interesting.
To suggest people just do the thing that makes them money highlights another problem if you ask me.
> Watching and hearing about the family instability in these communities is heartbreaking. Half or more of everyone’s parents are divorced. The kids float around seeking stability and the adults can’t provide it. You seem to be attributing the cause of this to 'Telling men and boys it's cool and fine to divorce' and not attributing to say... declining material and social capitol in the lower four quintiles of wealth…
People tend to be absolutist about whether it’s better for kids if unhappy parents get divorced, but as the saying goes every unhappy family is unhappy in its own way. Some marriages are hell for everybody involved and need to end. I put abuse situations in that category of course and also marriages that have so much animosity that they can’t stop fighting. On the other end of marriages that may end in divorce are si…
Women control the social capital and function as norm setters in our society. Fixing men won’t help if women and the prevailing culture remain broken. All the divorces I’ve witnessed, nearly every married childhood friend of mine has been the victim of unwanted divorce - in every instance initiated by women who simply wanted a younger, richer, more x partner. All were heavily endorsed by the surrounding social groups. It’s framed by their culture as an issue of women having equal rights to live life the way that makes them happy. Well who could argue with that. It sounds great that people should just be free to be happy, and to restrict women’s freedom in this domain harkens back to the past which we as a society have decided was a bad time, when women couldn’t vote and were the property of men. I can’t argue with that! But the children are robbed of a chance at something better, something their parents had, a stable family. Sometimes the little boys will then decide to become females. Who could blame them! I have learned that it’s better to accept these changes than to swim upstream like an old salmon or something. As long as boys can become girls, hypergamy seems fair, more symmetrical. That said, this current state of affairs amongs the coastal working class doesn’t seem like the optimal arrangement with respect to mental health outcomes.
Here's the most important part: > 3. The upper class, who wants to keep you mired in it I cannot stress enough how much division and polarization is driven by the wealthy who have a vested interest in sowing discord among the lower classes. The truth of the matter is that you, as a lower-income white person, have way more in common with a lower-income black person than a wealthy white person. Yet the amount of people…
And yet Russian TV has Tucker Carlson on and calls Joe Biden a Nazi.
This is an important read, especially this part. > This highly educated and affluent person prioritized stability for her own children. But refused to publicly endorse this value so that less fortunate children could also benefit from family stability. I’m from a rigidly socially conservative immigrant family that professes fashionably liberal values in public—imposing a double standard between “us” and “Americans.”…
I think the problem with the whole argument being made in this article is exhibited in your pull quote as well: working class people don't know or care what that "highly educated and affluent person" thinks about anything. It is not then clear to me how that person's stance on this - which I don't share - could possibly be the cause of the problems of people who don't care what that person thinks.
> a tight-knit family is the foundation of all other social structures. But you're missing an important part there: the "tight-knit" part doesn't just mean "stays together no matter what". It means "genuinely care about each other and work well together." Yes, a close, loving, supportive family is hugely important, for everyone in it. But a) the nuclear family you're almost certainly thinking about (a married couple…
> Yes, a close, loving, supportive family is hugely important, for everyone in it. Telling people that it doesn't matter if they divorce and that they should put their own short-term happiness first and foremost is tantamount to denying this. And when it's the liberal upper class doing this, they're pretty much pulling up the ladder to effective social cohesion behind themselves, even as they hypocritically enjoy its…
> Telling people that it doesn't matter if they divorce and that they should put their own short-term happiness first and foremost
That's a straw man, though. Nobody relevant is telling people that. You're either not listening to the primary sources and are getting a distorted representation by politically motivated secondary sources, or your own biases are clouding your understanding when you're reading the primary sources.
> The people with the most money and education—the class most responsible for shaping culture and customs—ensure that their children are raised in stable homes. But actively undermine the norm for everyone else.
His very weak evidence for this was one affluent person who didn’t want to admit publicly that she prioritizes stability for her children over self gratification - a value which goes against the grain of her inner circle.
Even if you have expectations, many opportunities may be gone. Just look at the lack of non-college work in the US that pays a living wage. Now try to get one of those jobs if you're competing against others who have no criminal history if you have a minor one. I have a job as a dev and even I'm tired of this treadmill. Taxes, COL, healthcare, etc. No time/money to do the things I want. No real career, just a job. Li…
> Just look at the lack of non-college work in the US that pays a living wage. A problem that doesn't exist. Plenty of that work out there. Try to get a custom 3-phase power line run in the datacenter. Average age of electricians is about 55 around here. Nobody goes into the trades because the trades will "destroy your body before you're 35" yet all the thin healthy tradesmen around here are mid-50s boomers. Hmm. The…
>especially staying away from drugs
We know very different electricians ;). But seriously, I wonder how much of the 'conservatives are uneducated!' trope that gets thrown around in conversations like this is due to conservatives in high school placing a higher value on providing for a family, doing the math, and consequently getting into the trades rather than university.
Divorce is a legal proceeding. The Government is ipso facto involved, and even more so when kids enter the picture since otherwise there would be no one to stand for their interest.
And what do you think the government is going to do when you eliminate no-fault divorce as this whole thread of cowards are happy to imply but not state? What do you think happens then?