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No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

robkhenderson.substack.com

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Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#301

Post by FabHK »

rayiner wrote: post #3

This is an important read, especially this part. > This highly educated and affluent person prioritized stability for her own children. But refused to publicly endorse this value so that less fortunate children could also benefit from family stability. I’m from a rigidly socially conservative immigrant family that professes fashionably liberal values in public—imposing a double standard between “us” and “Americans.”…

> The article is right on the mark talking about the importance of social expectations for men. My family’s rigid expectations have been such a blessing.

Émile Durkheim basically introduced the discipline of sociology with his study of suicide. He found that the ratio of suicide was higher among protestants than among catholics, and concluded that it was because they were less embedded in strict norms, and freer to do whatever they pleased, compared to the stronger social control among catholics. So, freedom turned out to be not necessarily a good thing.

(He also found that suicide is higher in times of peace than in war.)

Not sure how the theory held up, and what modern sociologists say about it. But that result stuck in my head, and it aligns with your experience and the article.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_(Durkheim_book)

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#302

Post by zeroonetwothree »

torginus wrote: post #273

Sorry, for going a bit of topic, but I perked up my ears at this sentence: >For example, there are many studies on identical twins separated at birth who are adopted by different families. How the hell are there 'many' studies on this? I'd think this Prince and the Pauper scenario would be so fantastic, that there'd be no more than a dozen cases, owing to the extreme rarity of circumstances which all need to happen f…

Looks like there have been almost 2000 pairs of such twins.

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2018/05/twin-epi...

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#303

Post by hammock »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #285
giantg2 wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The article is right on the mark talking about the importance of social expectations for men." Those only really work if the opportunities are there for the person to succeed. If you have no hope of success, then people just give up.

The funny part about expectations is they don't have to match reality to have an impact. If you raise a child telling them they have no opportunity, their chance of success is quite low.

That may work for a single generation. And the child soon grows up and meets reality. We are in a situation that has been developing for multiple generations

Edit: I agree with the replies and I’m not one for shirking personal responsibility to change your lot in life, nor not instilling an eye for opportunity in children. We are at a point where more may be necessary

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#304

Post by d4mi3n »

TedDoesntTalk wrote: post #245
d4mi3n wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this a bad thing? The US was founded by immigrants. Immigration, diversity, and the US’ history with these topics (good and bad) is huge part of the national cultural identity. As a US citizen, I think as long as we can maintain the cornerstones of our national heritage (democratic traditions, constitutional freedoms, etc) it should be fine if things change to reflect the demographics of our population.

Immigration has a large history in the US, yes, but historically immigrants were encouraged (through social pressures) to assimilate part of their identity. Is that pressure for partial assimilation still there? Or do we encourage diversity so much now that anything goes?

This is an interesting point!

I think this really depends on what we, as a society, want to ensure we all have in common. If you identify as a US citizen, what do you have in common with your countrymen?

Shared experiences and values can be hugely important. What those values should be is where I see a lot of contention.

I see this as a matter of degree. I think democratic values are fairly uncontroversial for a democratic country (rule of law, political representation, and all the other underpinnings of a function democracy). I think most US citizens also support many egalitarian ideals like the concepts of basic human rights, freedom of opportunity, and freedom of expression (speech, religion, etc).

Beyond that I’m really not sure!

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#305

Post by archhn »

asah wrote: post #216
archhn wrote: post #53

We're living in an utterly corrupt society. I know the middle class types on here don't like to hear it, but it's true. At the bottom of society, one can see clearly how bad it is. In the middle, you are insulated in your little suburban homes with your inflated sense of self-worth. Many people here are outright slaves. They are trapped in a predatory system that prevents them from gaining any dignity. It should be n…

That's not true! Poor people can escape if they live perfectly and don't make a single mistake and don't get unlucky. /S (Unlucky = health emergency, family emergency, wrong place wrong time, etc - advantaged people have accidents and mistakes but they have money and safety nets that catch them)

The number one cause of bankruptcy in the U.S. is healthcare costs. The horror stories I've personally witnessed are shocking. At the bottom of society, where I have dwelled, there's a whole undulating sea of broken toys. Ex engineers, disgraced financiers, all sorts of people that once were somebody in society, but fell down somehow into the land of the living dead; where there's no hope and mostly a silent endurance until we die in complete isolation.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#306

Post by ipaddr »

rayiner wrote: post #3

This is an important read, especially this part. > This highly educated and affluent person prioritized stability for her own children. But refused to publicly endorse this value so that less fortunate children could also benefit from family stability. I’m from a rigidly socially conservative immigrant family that professes fashionably liberal values in public—imposing a double standard between “us” and “Americans.”…

Those pressures forces you down a narrow path. Steve Jobs from an immigrant background would have never become what he did if he was forced into your situation.

Freedom means you get to choose. Many choose unwisely. Without that choice you are limited to established career paths that can be easily communicated.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#307

Post by sokoloff »

PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #213
josephg wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hear what you're saying, but words matter. I can never support a slogan I explicitly disagree with. There's plenty of better slogans out there. I'd support "end police violence" or "stop killer cops" or something. Thats certainly much more catchy than the full slogan right now, which seems to be "Defund the police, but we don't really want to do that, even though some people in our movement actually do want that, b…

"End Police Violence" has been a slogan in fact. It didn't really do much, precisely because not enough people who consider themselves unaffected by the risk of police violence were drawn in by it. By contrast "Defund the Police" definitely generated a "say what?" response from just about everyone, whether you agreed with it or not. As for the political power thing ... given the difficulty that existing politicians a…

What you heard as a “say what?” was a politely phrased “you guys haven’t thought this through” in a lot of cases.

“Think different”, “Think outside the bun”, “Just Do It” are good “say what?” examples. I don’t think “Defund the Police” accomplished the goal to make curious and enlist fence-sitters to the cause and instead likely pushed more people towards supporting their police departments.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#308

Post by Aunche »

ryan93 wrote: post #78
sandworm101 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe for those men lucky enough to have families. A growing issue is the large percentage of men who do not and will likely never have families to ever take care of. If we think deadbeat dads unstable, the incel community is a madhouse.

incels commit almost no violence against women compared to men in relationships

IMO outrage about incels is just a socially acceptable way to bully. It's a way to find an excuse to express their superiority over others while masquerading it with concern over women's safety. You're never going to see someone mock a successful man who beats his wife.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#310

Post by DeathArrow »

I can't find a point in history where the extreme left produced anything else than doom.

As someone who grew up in a poor Eastern European country, I felt both envy and admiration for the US. I thought the Americans had best of everything. US seemed like an ideal in many senses.

20 or 30 years later, I feel grateful we still have families, traditions, respect for ourselves and a way of life which can lead to moments of happiness. All of these are under pressure from self appointed far left elites trying to "civilize" and "westernized" us. I hope they won't succeed and that the West is starting to come back to it's lost senses. A civilization built in thousands of years shouldn't be destroyed in few tens of years by madmen and lunatics.

I will happily accept all downvotes, but I rather get downvotes then not say what I feel.

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