Live data from Hacker News

No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

robkhenderson.substack.com

111–120 of 1001 posts

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#111
post #3

This is an important read, especially this part. > This highly educated and affluent person prioritized stability for her own children. But refused to publicly endorse this value so that less fortunate children could also benefit from family stability. I’m from a rigidly socially conservative immigrant family that professes fashionably liberal values in public—imposing a double standard between “us” and “Americans.”…

Yay the patriarchy! :)

Is it patriarchy to expect men to support the families they create?

(Sorry if I didn't get the memo, who can keep track of the latest things Deemed Problematic these days)

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#112
I think these "chattering classes" overestimate their influence on how young people grow up. Their position papers and articles in the Atlantic are nothing compared to the tidal wave of media from Youtube, Tiktok, Hollywood etc. And those media engines prize the quick dopamine hit above all else - criminals, gangsters, hustlers - anything but a hard working family man.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#113
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They undermine it by: - claiming a single parent household is no worse for children than a two parent household - claiming men have no particular importance in the raising of children - financially supporting (in some cases subsidizing) single parent families

Do they? I can see the third bullet in practice, although I think it’s more of a fix than a cause for single-parent homes. On the other hand, my social circle is highly educated and well-off and I’m not sure I know a single person who would agree with the first bullet. The second point I’m less clear on myself: is there evidence that children of lesbian couples are somehow worse off?

> The second point I’m less clear on myself: is there evidence that children of lesbian couples are somehow worse off?

No the aren't: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/01/100121135904.h... "The family type that is best for children is one that has responsible, committed, stable parenting. Two parents are, on average, better than one, but one really good parent is better than two not-so-good ones. The gender of parents only matters in ways that don't matter."

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#114
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We need to find a better reason why this happens. I don't believe it's liberal social values which are not lived by. First of I would believe it's an educational problem and second it's a 'who cares' problem. There are plenty of areas/ghettos of low income and low education around. The blog also contains the following: "The people with the most money and education—the class most responsible for shaping culture and cu…

No fault divorce, girl bossing, anti-shame messaging, delayed marriage.

No post body was provided.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#115
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curios if there is a female equivalent of a radical incel?

/r/TwoXChromosomes/ (which is funnily one of the most toxic subs I have ever seen but reddit dare to touch it)

I haven't been there much but the few discussions I've seen there weren't that toxic, nowhere near Red Pill... I'm curious if you have any examples?

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#116
post #39
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We need to find a better reason why this happens. I don't believe it's liberal social values which are not lived by. First of I would believe it's an educational problem and second it's a 'who cares' problem. There are plenty of areas/ghettos of low income and low education around. The blog also contains the following: "The people with the most money and education—the class most responsible for shaping culture and cu…

They undermine it by: - claiming a single parent household is no worse for children than a two parent household - claiming men have no particular importance in the raising of children - financially supporting (in some cases subsidizing) single parent families

No post body was provided.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#117
post #89
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gallop: 81% of black Americans want police to spend same amount or more time in their area https://news.gallup.com/poll/316571/black-americans-police-r... Defund the police is popular with nobody except rich liberals living in privilege bubbles. People in crime ridden areas especially don’t want it.

When it came to race, 63 percent of Black voters polled supported allocating portions of police funding to social programs, while only 35 percent of white voters agreed. https://thehill.com/homenews/news/542108-poll-finds-only-18-... It isnt a very popular slogan in general these days (even among blacks) but the rich, privileged and white people loathe it most of all.

> “only experience of police is of being harassed, beaten and robbed.”

I think your representation of blacks and the police is woefully misinformed and is a figment of liberal imagination

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#118
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

incels commit almost no violence against women compared to men in relationships

A large supply of men who DGAF and don't have much holding them down is how you get really serious social instability. They might not be beating their wives but let it roll unchecked for 20yr and it gets bad.

Men who DGAF aren't the same as "incels". You and GP aren't at odds with one another.

And yes, it is somewhat ironic society is making the exact same mistakes it has before: forgetting how destructive a large population of uninterested young men is towards society, without ever having to be violent.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#119
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe for those men lucky enough to have families. A growing issue is the large percentage of men who do not and will likely never have families to ever take care of. If we think deadbeat dads unstable, the incel community is a madhouse.

It’s not a matter of luck—men in my dad’s village in Bangladesh start families, have kids, and live relatively happy lives in poverty even most poor Americans could not comprehend. I don’t think it’s fair to call all these guys incels. As the article observes, most just have no expectations placed on them, and also have no way of attaining dignity and social worth through the avenues in life reasonably available to t…

It is sunday morning. I'm at work (military). Part of that job is checking in with people at a half-dozen other locations who are also at work on a sunday morning. they just happen to all be hetero guys, which is not unusual in the military no matter the day. So I asked in our chat whether they had wives/girlfriends at home today. "No." "Nope." "My car is my GF" and "Rocking a peppi shirt under my uniform". These are single guys in their mid-twenties and thirties. They have jobs. Most are university-educated officers. They look good in their uniforms, especially with the medals. But they work sunday mornings because they don't have families and don't go out saturday nights. I worry about this trend.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#120
I think there are quite a few alternative explanations for the data cited in the article than the ones the author proposes:

> "Today, one in six American men between the ages of 25 and 54 are unemployed or out of the workforce altogether: about 10 million men. This number has more than doubled since the 1970s."

We have this place in the USA called "The Rust Belt" which was once a dynamic and active manufacturing center providing millions of well-paid jobs for these now unemployed American men. California once had a world-class electronics manufacturing industry (and a garment manufacturing industry) that provided hundreds of thousands of such jobs. Under the rubric of neoliberal globalization, those jobs were shipped out to Mexico, China, Indonesia, India and other low-wage centers, and the huge cut in labor costs went right into the pockets of a small fraction of now-extremely wealthy Americans. Why neglect that phenomenon?

> "Over the past half-century, the number of men per capita behind bars has more than quadrupled."

Again, we have a robust alternative explanation: the explosion in incarceration under the War on Drugs program launched by Nixon in the early 1970s and continued and amplified by successive Democratic and Republican administrations. This resulted in the explosive growth of the quite profitable private prison complex (which did not exist before the 1970s), and of course enforcement was highly skewed towards poor and minority groups. These groups were far more likely to smoke crack on the street corner than to snort cocaine in private clubs, and a 100-wt of cocaine powder was considered equivalent to a 1-wt of crack crystal in sentencing.

So if the author wants solutions to these problems, why not promote rewriting domestic and international law to exert significant penalties on corporations who outsource manufacturing overseas, and also end the War on Drugs by eliminating incarceration for possession of drugs, and instead focus on a public education approach emphasizing the benefits of getting off drugs and alcohol?

Post reply on HN