Funniest quote I read recently:
We wanted diversity and inclusion, all we got were white women
Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations
221–230 of 666 posts
Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations
#222Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yeah, Jeopardy could be self-selecting based on a sex-specific mental trait. But you seem to be ignoring the test scores. Why is that?
You're ignoring the part of my reply where I respond to your point about test scores. Why is that?
Did you edit your post? Maybe I overlooked a paragraph.
The math SAT questions aren't a "bunch of sums." And I agree with you about cultural bias. As I stated, the school system is biased against boys. So the SAT math scores should understate the male/female ratio at that level.
Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations
#223Throwaway. I'm happy to have more women in tech and hope it occurs or continues. However, virtually everyone recruiting in tech has observed some toxic diversity initiatives, I would venture. Some examples I have seen personally or one degree removed from me. - pressure on HMs to hire more women despite 95% of applicants being male - people in interview panels openly saying "but he's a white man" / "do we want to hir…
I have mentioned this on Hacker News before:
At this one job, we had only two remotely viable candidates for an open position. I was on the hiring committee, as I often was in those days.
Candidate A: Had worked in the industry, had all of the qualifications, already chock-full of some interesting ideas I wanted to hear more of from the interview alone. Excited at the prospect.
Candidate B: Had never worked in the industry, had only a handful of qualifications, barely responsive. Seemed indifferent to getting the job. Additionally, not too fluent in English, to the point where it was more than a little difficult to communicate.
Candidate A was a white man, Candidate B was a recent immigrant and a woman. The immediate supervisor for the position -- a woman -- wanted Candidate A, as did most others. However, the person running the show said, out loud I might add, that our group already had "too many pale males." I would like to repeat that: too many pale males. A significant glance was then cast at me and the guy in the wheelchair on the hiring committee, both being not-particularly-dark men. Presumably by "virtue" of our disabilities we would automatically be down for the Diversity Squad.
Candidate B was hired and turned out exactly as she was in the interview: disinterested in doing the job, lacking even some bare understanding of how to accomplish many things, always trying to find ways to do her grad school homework while on the job and pushing off her duties on someone else, rather than trying to learn her tasks. Her poor English was a significant barrier. She remained a leaden weight until she went off to be someone else's problem. She wasn't a drag due to her skin color or sex, but she was hired because of those things.
This was over ten years ago, in academia. A friend who worked for pharmacy chain was bluntly told that as a white male, he was not going to get a manager job, no matter how long he held on. Something something equity.
Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations
#224During my career, I've seen enough discrimination in the name of DEI as well. But what bothers me more is the ageism. The number of times an old person has been rejected from a job is too damn high. The reasons have always been "he may not work well with young people", "seniority complex", "he is over qualified" etc. Most of the times, they were more than qualified. I fear when I am into 40s or 50s, I will face the s…
I'm almost 50. I've been working in tech since 1996, and at this point, despite being a strong and seasoned engineer, I'm getting comments like, "it's different now", or "back in your day", etc, and the very young engineers fresh from school are the ones throwing this around. Those with a few years of experience under their belt don't. It's really disheartening, but it's also my job to train these bozos and turn them…
I'm sure there is ageism from younger devs, but be sure not to confuse it with respect. In my experience, younger devs (like me at the time) were always excited to learn from older devs.
Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations
#225Earlier quoted context omitted.
You're ignoring the part of my reply where I respond to your point about test scores. Why is that?
Did you edit your post? Maybe I overlooked a paragraph. The math SAT questions aren't a "bunch of sums." And I agree with you about cultural bias. As I stated, the school system is biased against boys. So the SAT math scores should understate the male/female ratio at that level.
No I didn't edit it. You overlooked it.
Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations
#226During my career, I've seen enough discrimination in the name of DEI as well. But what bothers me more is the ageism. The number of times an old person has been rejected from a job is too damn high. The reasons have always been "he may not work well with young people", "seniority complex", "he is over qualified" etc. Most of the times, they were more than qualified. I fear when I am into 40s or 50s, I will face the s…
As I have gotten older, my pay has continued to increase. "Over qualified" means that I want too much money . (I don't apologize for that. I bring more value than I did 20 years ago. Either you have a use for that - enough of a use that you're willing to pay for it - or you don't.) Also, if you've got someone with 20 years experience, and they're willing to accept the same pay as someone with 5 years experience... ar…
I had interviews with people that were overqualified; I told them it is their choice if to take the position or not. I learned that overqualified people tend to leave after a few months to something more interesting.
Also "I want too much money" is a thing if all you need is a low level tech and the applicant is an expert in the field. It is not worth paying for expertise that you will not need. For example I hired a guy to do some very boring, routine cleanup in some databases; if I would hire a real DBA and pay double, what for? In this case I pay for the work and result, not for the expertise.
But to be fair I always tell the applicants what is the situation and give them the choice. I know it is a very rare case in the industry.
Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations
#227Earlier quoted context omitted.
Did you edit your post? Maybe I overlooked a paragraph. The math SAT questions aren't a "bunch of sums." And I agree with you about cultural bias. As I stated, the school system is biased against boys. So the SAT math scores should understate the male/female ratio at that level.
No I didn't edit it. You overlooked it.
Sorry for being careless in my reading.
Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations
#228During my career, I've seen enough discrimination in the name of DEI as well. But what bothers me more is the ageism. The number of times an old person has been rejected from a job is too damn high. The reasons have always been "he may not work well with young people", "seniority complex", "he is over qualified" etc. Most of the times, they were more than qualified. I fear when I am into 40s or 50s, I will face the s…
It's kind of ageism-adjacent, but I wonder if some of it is a bias that expects that past 40 you shouldn't really be needing to apply to jobs by resume drops any more. So like, seeing that type of application is in an indication that the person's first twenty years of career haven't yielded the kinds of achievements and contact network that have bumped them out of the hustle and into the world where they no longer be…
Maybe, but this feels like making excuses for something that is part of a big and obvious pattern.
FWIW, ageism is the one form of outright and open discrimination that I have witnessed in tech companies. None of the unconscious bias, microagession, dog whistle, tone stuff. Just straight up insulting people in the open to their face for their age. And I’ve seen it done to justify crappier technical solutions. The problem is real and out in the open. No need for elaborate excuses.
Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations
#229Earlier quoted context omitted.
Exactly equal down to the single individual, yes that would be unlikely. Broadly the same, seems perfectly logical to me.
Men and women share fundamentally different genetic configurations which makes it seem illogical to me. What makes it seem logical to you?
Intelligence is not purely genetic.
Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations
#230Earlier quoted context omitted.
Get a faux-vintage t-shirt with your favorite mustachioed mass murderer’s face on it.
Mario!
If video games could affect people's behavior, PacMan would've caused people to meander around dark rooms while munching on pills and listening to electronic music.