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A 4-year-old can run errands alone and not just on reality TV

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Re: A 4-year-old can run errands alone and not just on reality TV

#471

Post by hef19898 »

DocTomoe wrote: post #460
uranium wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Would you send your 5 year old self down the streets of San Francisco or Seattle?" Yes. We live in San Francisco, and our kids went to a daycare in the Civic Center. We walked [with the kids] by many homeless people every weekday for years. Our interactions with them were almost universally positive; they'd clear the sidewalk to let kids through, try to keep kids from seeing drug use, chat and share candy, etc. On c…

I am usually a supporter of 'free-range kids', but I'd draw the line with Skid Row. Sure, the vast majority of homeless folks may be relatively harmless, but I'd wager that the density of less-than-harmless people is higher in that environment.

Statistically, kids are most likely to be abused and hurt in any imaginable way by people in their social circles, be that family, coaches, youth group leaders, teachers,... I'm not worried about my children seeing a poor drug addict or homeless in the streets. It actually is a great opportunity to talk about what this means, how it can happen and not to be afraid of it. And it can show them to be careful, without supervision, on certain things.

Re: A 4-year-old can run errands alone and not just on reality TV

#472

Post by toastal »

teraku wrote: post #463
beej71 wrote: post #47

I don't have any kids, so I don't really feel comfortable telling folks how to raise theirs. But I will tell you my perspective. As someone who grew up in the "be back home in time for supper" 1970s, today's world seems completely foreign. When I started kindergarten, Mom walked me to school on the first day so that I'd know the route. And after that I walked to school on my own until I learned to ride a bike. I rode…

There is research on this, and basically people have gone from a model of concentric circles to a model of connected island. What does this mean? Back in the day, you explored the area around yourself by foot or bike. Your model of your surroundings grew in concentric circles, which included more and more places of interest. Your friend's house, school, the library, and so on. Nowadays, you drive everywhere, by train…

Worse yet is the GPS navigation pointing forward instead of north and telling you which way to turn in relative space (left or right). Many folk aren't building an intuition about the layouts of their towns and cities because everything is relative.

My Dad got my a US Atlas for Christmas around my 16th birthday and told me to always trace out the route is was going by hand and understand in absolutes where I was going. Eventually it all clicked now and I find it odd that people sometimes compliment me on my navigation of cities and ability to use maps—but I'm not sure how people do it otherwise without being glued to a phone. Getting slightly lost has always been the fun part.

Re: A 4-year-old can run errands alone and not just on reality TV

#473

Post by grapeskin »

a2tech wrote: post #234
DFHippie wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. The cities are actually safer . The chief difference is that the segment of the media dedicated to keeping people fearful, particularly of their neighbors, is enormous now. It was always the case that media liked stories of conflict, but this was moderated by a sense of propriety and responsibility to the community. Now, certain voices have enormous megaphones and no restraints and the paranoia and anger they a…

My wife grew up in the city, and I grew up in the country (not the pretend 'doctors commute to the city and have 10 acres they pretend to farm and raise horses on' but 'white trash, holy shit there's no work' county) and my wife is HORRIFIED by how much violence and random crime there is where I come from. My family still asks how we can live in the city since its so dangerous while meth heads are stealing anhydrous…

Yep. Born and raised in a picturesque small town. Went on to live in cities.

I know more than a few people in my small town who got arrested for burglaries and robberies. I know a lot of victims too. Rape basically isn't reported because if the neighbor's boy gets in trouble, that'll ruin the relations between half the town. There are the town drunks who got pulled over more times than you can count and eventually killed someone in a car accident.

You're passing by hundreds if not thousands of people in a few hours in a city. A methhead dancing naked on the street corner is going to catch your eye. The thousands of normal people won't.

In a small town, you're not seeing anyone at all some days. Maybe you're just passing by 5 cars. The opportunity to witness anything is lower.

Of course, plenty of small towns are nice and safe. But the ones that have any problems are proportionally going to be way worse, due to lower population.

Re: A 4-year-old can run errands alone and not just on reality TV

#474

Post by bbu »

vimy wrote: post #417
ctime wrote: post #382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a saying in Ireland called "More Irish than the Irish" and refers to immigrants and non-locals who take up all of the local culture to extreme (compared to the average) levels. Immigrants are statistically the most law abiding and often times, even conservative, members of a a community and it probably is one measure of long-term survival (esp. in the U.S. while living under the microscope of a work visa) so…

Not true in Western Europe. They are heavily overrepresented in crime statistics and their own communities have grown big enough that there’s no need anymore to try to fit in.

> Not true in Western Europe. They are heavily overrepresented in crime statistics and their own communities have grown big enough that there’s no need anymore to try to fit in.

you can't just say something like that without any supporting facts.

Re: A 4-year-old can run errands alone and not just on reality TV

#476

Post by agilob »

tempnow987 wrote: post #67

Not in the US they can't. "officials placed two brothers into foster care after one, 11, was found playing basketball alone in his own yard." He'd gotten home early from school and his parents came 90 minutes later. He was in his own yard. The family lost their children to foster care. Ironically in foster care ACTUAL abuse rates are pretty darn high! "When Cindy and Fred arrived home they were arrested for child neg…

When I was 5 my parents went on holiday abroad for 2 weeks and left me alone at home with 2 dogs. We had great fun after I learnt how to use analogue camera

Re: A 4-year-old can run errands alone and not just on reality TV

#477

Post by agilob »

evv wrote: post #83
tempnow987 wrote: post #67

Not in the US they can't. "officials placed two brothers into foster care after one, 11, was found playing basketball alone in his own yard." He'd gotten home early from school and his parents came 90 minutes later. He was in his own yard. The family lost their children to foster care. Ironically in foster care ACTUAL abuse rates are pretty darn high! "When Cindy and Fred arrived home they were arrested for child neg…

Child abducted by CPS- I did not see the plot twist coming.

Who watches the watchers?

Re: A 4-year-old can run errands alone and not just on reality TV

#478

Post by thatjoeoverthr »

gernb wrote: post #90
rafale wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Politically speaking, it's also good to push back on any legislation or system where parents lose power on their kids education and upbringing, even in the name of their well-being. It's important as a society that we have autonomy and diversity in the upbringing of the next generation.

Unfortunately vocal people on both sides of the spectrum hate that. The people calling CPS hate it because they think parents are being negectful. Certain people hate it because they imagine kids getting indoctrinated into religions they don't like. I have several friends and families that were raised via home schooling or raised their kids homeschooled. All the kids are amazing, none of them had any religion involvm…

I had home schooling myself. My parents took me out after the school wanted to put me in special ed due to my autism. (Of course, they tried Ritalin first.)

After being taken out of school, there weren’t any actual problems. My parents let me spend the day programming and biking, and deal with the standardized tests myself. It was one of their best parenting decisions.

I don’t have autism.

Lately I’m letting my daughter try home schooling, after they started doing six hours a day of Zoom meetings. It’s not going as well, but I think the main thing is she knows I’m on her side.

Re: A 4-year-old can run errands alone and not just on reality TV

#479

Post by jefftk »

I was somewhat worried about child protective services (CPS) or neighbors in letting my kids have some independence around the neighborhood, but we haven't had any problems with CPS and neighbors have been supportive. Examples of what we've let them do in their own in public and when:

* Playing on the sidewalk near our house (4y)

* Playing at the playground (5y, walkie talkie for backup)

* Crossing small neighborhood streets (7y)

* Walking to school (7y)

* Going to the corner store (8y)

Re: A 4-year-old can run errands alone and not just on reality TV

#480

Post by vidarh »

beej71 wrote: post #47

I don't have any kids, so I don't really feel comfortable telling folks how to raise theirs. But I will tell you my perspective. As someone who grew up in the "be back home in time for supper" 1970s, today's world seems completely foreign. When I started kindergarten, Mom walked me to school on the first day so that I'd know the route. And after that I walked to school on my own until I learned to ride a bike. I rode…

I feel much the same way, and I do have a son.

My biggest concern with how much freedom to give my son has not been his safety out in public on his own, but the potential risk of interference from other people who might think he'd be at risk.

We live two doors down from his primary school, which did not even allow children to leave without being picked up until year 5, and only then with signed consent.

Meanwhile, I had a half hour walk to and from school from my second day of school onwards.

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