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The Uber Bubble

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Re: The Uber Bubble

#481

Post by xboxnolifes »

Ekaros wrote: post #368
xapata wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In some countries, taxis are so often criminal that tourists are warned to avoid them. In some less extreme places, drivers simply never use the meter and the passengers must negotiate every ride. Uber and its competitors have been wonderful for hailing rides in these places.

And why shouldn't Uber be forced to be a platform where the drivers can negotiate price with riders? Seems rather bad that Uber is one dictating the pricing and their cut...

Why is it bad that a company sets their price?

Re: The Uber Bubble

#482

Post by nullc »

xenophonf wrote: post #267
_qua wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the scam there? Do they not turn on the meter and then beg for payment at the end of the ride?

They'll say the meter isn't working and offer a fixed rate that's usually way higher than what you should be paying. It's illegal in many jurisdictions for precisely this reason.

But then you have places where some rides e.g. rides to the airport, have automatic fixed rates and you don't know if the driver is scamming you or not.

It's remarkable how bad many businesses and government regulators are at asking the question "Is this behavior indistinguishable from a scam?"

Re: The Uber Bubble

#483

Post by nullc »

axg11 wrote: post #140
cameronh90 wrote: post #118

Do people actually claim Uber is a successful business? In the UK, none of the original companies that built the railroads still exist. Many of the railway companies were never particularly profitable and the railway boom was a stock market bubble. Lots of them were fraudulent or poorly run. Eventually they all either went out of business, or amalgamated and ultimately got nationalised. Nevertheless, they proved the…

An interesting perspective, but I think the key difference is that Uber has built no lasting infrastructure. I do agree that Uber has improved the taxi/private vehicle transport industry in essentially every market it entered. In London (UK) for example, taxis were previously mainly used by tourists, the rich, or the very drunk. Uber changed this completely, making it accessible for many more people. If Uber disappea…

> Uber has built no lasting infrastructure

They wrote themselves into the California constitution, now that's infrastructure for any business to envy!

Re: The Uber Bubble

#484

Post by nullc »

kortilla wrote: post #249
amelius wrote: post #144

Why isn't it illegal to disrupt a market by undercutting the competition in a long-term structural way? What makes it worse is that money is pumped into it like a ponzi scheme (first investors cash, last investors are left with the bubble), which should be illegal in itself.

> Why isn't it illegal to disrupt a market by undercutting the competition in a long-term structural way? Because you can actually do what the competitor does for cheaper. It sounds like you’re arguing against companies being more efficient than others, which is strange. If you’re saying companies shouldn’t be able to operate at a loss while competitors don’t, you’re arguing against companies that invest in improveme…

It's perfectly possible to back out the expenses that go into future improvements and ask if a company is selling a product at a loss.

I haven't looked at the data lately, but not that long ago except in a few of the most established markets uber was paying drivers more than they were charging customers. This should be a violation of dumping laws-- but the laws are not enforced against large and highly aggressive entities.

Re: The Uber Bubble

#485

Post by netizen-936824 »

AlchemistCamp wrote: post #462
Semaphor wrote: post #402

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> in europe there are many taxi companies that have started to do uber app features and prepayment and all the jazz that make uber so great. Yeah, Uber never got a foothold in Germany, but they brought us apps and card payment. Before that, it was cash only. That said, cabs (both, actual taxis and rentable cars with drivers [0]) also seem to be far better here. The cab companies own the cars, not drivers, they are mo…

> Yeah, Uber never got a foothold in Germany, but they brought us apps and card payment. Germany also worked hard to cripple Uber. Even its per-existing rules are hostile towards much of the innovation Uber brought to market. One particularly egregious example is forcing each Uber to "return to garage" between each trip, even if another customer is on its path and requesting a ride. This makes the service considerabl…

Protecting drivers from predatory companies like Uber is a good thing

Re: The Uber Bubble

#486

Post by mech422 »

parineum wrote: post #343
kanbara wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

in europe there are many taxi companies that have started to do uber app features and prepayment and all the jazz that make uber so great. the main issues i have with uber are that it's now almost more expensive than taxis, there's almost no regulation, the drivers are taken advantage of / not making profit and also not getting proper benefits. just because taxis suck doesn't mean uber should replace them. government…

> drivers are taken advantage of / not making profit and also not getting proper benefits. I hear people say this all the time. None of those people are Uber drivers. I can't speak to Europe but that's been my experience in California. This kind of "we know what's good for you" elitism is that turns people off from the left and why I don't want to be associated with the democratic party despite my voting history.

In AZ, both uber/lyft are short of drivers. The gas price meant a lot of drivers couldn't make any money.

Also, god help you if you want a ride more then 10-15 miles...Phoenix is huge, but for some reason, drivers don't seem to like long rides.

Re: The Uber Bubble

#487

Post by junon »

I worked on the long term forecasting team as engineering support. Uber is laughably unprofitable. They spend thousands of dollars per rider signup and way, way more per driver signup due to all of the perks.

I worked there for a year and vowed never to work for a big tech company again. Sold my shares right as it was announced they got stung in the UK. It's a dying company.

Won't say much more than that. I've been harassed a few times now for talking about it.

Re: The Uber Bubble

#488

Post by kristofferR »

nerdponx wrote: post #181
westcort wrote: post #35

My key takeaways: 1. Uber is actually a higher cost/less efficient producer of urban car services than the taxi companies it has driven out of business 2. Individual Uber drivers with limited capital cannot acquire, finance, maintain and insure vehicles more economically than Yellow Cab 3. Expenses other than drivers, vehicles, and fuel account for 15 percent of traditional taxi costs but Uber charges drivers 25-30 p…

With this many billion dollars on the line, one can never be too cynical. One has to wonder if this has been the endgame all along: driving taxi services out of business, replacing them with a monopoly where consumers pay the same price (or higher) and where drivers are paid less. I will say that services like Uber have been very beneficial for areas that were previously underserved by traditional taxi companies. But…

The wealth transfer has been to the passengers though, as this article points out repeatedly Uber isn't earning money.

Re: The Uber Bubble

#489

Post by cinntaile »

AlchemistCamp wrote: post #462
Semaphor wrote: post #402

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> in europe there are many taxi companies that have started to do uber app features and prepayment and all the jazz that make uber so great. Yeah, Uber never got a foothold in Germany, but they brought us apps and card payment. Before that, it was cash only. That said, cabs (both, actual taxis and rentable cars with drivers [0]) also seem to be far better here. The cab companies own the cars, not drivers, they are mo…

> Yeah, Uber never got a foothold in Germany, but they brought us apps and card payment. Germany also worked hard to cripple Uber. Even its per-existing rules are hostile towards much of the innovation Uber brought to market. One particularly egregious example is forcing each Uber to "return to garage" between each trip, even if another customer is on its path and requesting a ride. This makes the service considerabl…

> In recent weeks, the policy can even be seen as indirectly subsidizing an invasion.

That seems a bit farfetched. They don't run on natural gas.

Re: The Uber Bubble

#490

Post by oblio »

qeternity wrote: post #373
samastur wrote: post #357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not what kanbara said. Most people are bad at calculating financial implications of decisions before them. There are lots of reasons for this (limited finance/math knowledge, impenetrable language in which conditions are layed out...) or actually don't have better options so they can literally be taken advantage of. Some may be even stupid, but there's no need or reason to reach for that as an explanation.

> Most people are bad at calculating financial implications of decisions before them. This is such a horrible take and reeks of nanny state oversight. Millions of small business owners make these decisions all the time. Markets have a way of quickly rooting out those who aren’t making good decisions. Government has proven itself to be far less financially competent.

Have you ever heard of MLMs? Of which there are thousands of examples around the world? Herbalife, Forever Living Products, Amway, etc.

All based on there being a large chunk of people[1] that don't really understand how money works.

[1] I'd put that number based on anecdata, at least at around 20-30% of the population.

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