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The Uber Bubble

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Re: The Uber Bubble

#401

Post by funklute »

nicbou wrote: post #384
mjburgess wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not following this logic -- do you think it would've been better not to take the rickshaw? You do realise that this man is providing for himself, and perhaps others, by this job? It seems like your issue was being confronted with the "realities of life" which distressed your sensibilities; and your solution appears to be to hide from these. I dont see this as a moral impulse, but a disgust response. If you wished…

Imagine making the same argument for 7 year old chimney sweeps in Victorian England, and the flaw in your argument becomes more obvious. OP choses not to hire underpaid and overworked labour because it's wrong, even if doing so would provide temporary relief.

> Imagine making the same argument for 7 year old chimney sweeps in Victorian England, and the flaw in your argument becomes more obvious.

It doesn't make it any more obvious to me. That 7 year old Victorian chimney sweep still has to eat. If society doesn't have the infrastructure to take care of them, then the other alternative is to starve, possibly to death.

Refusing to hire these workers only makes things better if doing so also results in a real pressure to provide said infrastructure. It seems unlikely that would be the case both with the chimney sweep and the rickshaw cyclist (at least in the short term).

Re: The Uber Bubble

#402

Post by Semaphor »

kanbara wrote: post #321
jmyeet wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't disagree with your points but let me give you some counterpoints: 1. Taxi services are balkanized; 2. Many tax services don't allow you to order a taxi ahead of time. You have to flag one down (eg NYC). For ordering a car, you need to otherwise deal with an (expensive) car service; 3. Uber made the payment process seamless and I cannot overstate how important this is as a user. I hate dealing with NYC yellow…

in europe there are many taxi companies that have started to do uber app features and prepayment and all the jazz that make uber so great. the main issues i have with uber are that it's now almost more expensive than taxis, there's almost no regulation, the drivers are taken advantage of / not making profit and also not getting proper benefits. just because taxis suck doesn't mean uber should replace them. government…

> in europe there are many taxi companies that have started to do uber app features and prepayment and all the jazz that make uber so great.

Yeah, Uber never got a foothold in Germany, but they brought us apps and card payment. Before that, it was cash only.

That said, cabs (both, actual taxis and rentable cars with drivers [0]) also seem to be far better here. The cab companies own the cars, not drivers, they are modern and clean and usually premium brands. Just from what I’m reading about the situation in the USA, it seems to be a clusterfuck, and I know from experience that in South Africa, cabs get you crappy overpriced cars that are almost falling apart while Uber gives you a clean private vehicle.

[0]: I’m not sure if this is a distinction in other countries, taxis are allowed to pick up people, and have some limited public transport rights, e.g. certain streets might be bus and taxi only, while rentable cars (German: Funkmietwagen, Personenmietwagen, or Minicar) can only be ordered in advance and have to follow all rules like a private vehicle. Taxis pay more taxes.

Re: The Uber Bubble

#403

Post by kwhitefoot »

jmyeet wrote: post #211
westcort wrote: post #35

My key takeaways: 1. Uber is actually a higher cost/less efficient producer of urban car services than the taxi companies it has driven out of business 2. Individual Uber drivers with limited capital cannot acquire, finance, maintain and insure vehicles more economically than Yellow Cab 3. Expenses other than drivers, vehicles, and fuel account for 15 percent of traditional taxi costs but Uber charges drivers 25-30 p…

I don't disagree with your points but let me give you some counterpoints: 1. Taxi services are balkanized; 2. Many tax services don't allow you to order a taxi ahead of time. You have to flag one down (eg NYC). For ordering a car, you need to otherwise deal with an (expensive) car service; 3. Uber made the payment process seamless and I cannot overstate how important this is as a user. I hate dealing with NYC yellow…

Most of that is specific to the US. Taxis work in other countries without it being difficult to get one in the middle of the night. And the medallion system is unique to the US I think.

> . Uber made the payment process seamless I've been paying taxi fares with a credit card in an in car payment terminal for twenty years in Scandinavia. If I had a business trip to anywhere in the Nordic countries I never needed to get any cash because everything worked with a card.

Re: The Uber Bubble

#404

Post by criddell »

Firmwarrior wrote: post #286
criddell wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> employs thousands of people You made me wonder how many people are actually employed by Uber. I thought thousands sounded like a lot for what they do. First Google result - 29,000 employees. That blows me away. It sounds like Uber itself is ready for disruption.

I've been trying to figure this out for the last few months.. Uber isn't THAT complicated on the technical side. The driver/rider matchmaking is simpler than algorithmic trading code I've worked on, and I'm happy to take 1% on a trade in that space, yet Uber and Lyft are helping themselves to 30% or more. I was personally thinking it'd be great to offer an Uber competitor that aims for complete transparency with no f…

You wouldn’t be the first. You can buy software and set up a ride sharing service very quickly. EverTransit is one, but there are others as well.

Re: The Uber Bubble

#405

Post by Kerrick »

AussieWog93 wrote: post #242
Sebguer wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1) Gypsy is a slur 2) Both of those things were / are illegal and operated relatively underground, which is exactly the point of the person you're responding to.

>Gypsy is a slur Wow. Someone should probably let the creators of "Big Fat Gypsy Weddings" know this! And all the people that participated in the show. And all of the Travellers that watched it.

It’s in the process of being removed from names. For example, the moth: https://www.ksmu.org/2022-04-18/a-common-moth-pest-had-a-slu...

Re: The Uber Bubble

#406

Post by tomduncalf »

blackhaz wrote: post #378
cjbgkagh wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Definitely agree. Nowadays I have Uber drivers sit around the corner refusing to show up and calling me to tell me I should cancel so that I have to pay the $5 fine. Sure I can contact support to get that $5 back but it has happened to me so many times there really should be a button for it. It’s hard for me to believe Uber is not aware of this behavior.

That's very common in Prague. Uber in Prague is a disaster. About 5% of my rides are probably ending up with having to pay a cancellation fee for a driver who never showed up. Contacting support to resolve this is pain indeed. Most of the Uber rides in Prague are owned by limited liability companies (s r.o.). I guess there's some kind of an alliance between Uber and those local companies. Another 5-10% or so of my Ub…

Unfortunately it seems to be getting more like this in London, the cancellations are much more frequent and the fares have skyrocketed in recent years. I guess one positive regardless is that it has forced traditional taxis to modernise, previously their card machines were always “out of order” etc. and many can now be booked via similar apps.

Re: The Uber Bubble

#407

Post by tomduncalf »

dustinmoris wrote: post #379
jmyeet wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't disagree with your points but let me give you some counterpoints: 1. Taxi services are balkanized; 2. Many tax services don't allow you to order a taxi ahead of time. You have to flag one down (eg NYC). For ordering a car, you need to otherwise deal with an (expensive) car service; 3. Uber made the payment process seamless and I cannot overstate how important this is as a user. I hate dealing with NYC yellow…

The thing with Uber is that in some places it's the best thing ever and in others it's just a complete disaster. Both view points are correct and I have experienced both myself. For example, when travelling, particularly in notoriously dangerous countries where taxis are extremely untrustworthy and often outright dangerous (driver works with gangs who mug or kidnap you - yes that almost happened to me and it happened…

I hear you on the London thing - having had quite a few experiences like yours with Uber recently, I’m going to try going back to black cabs. As I mentioned in another post though I think Uber has forced black cabs to up their game and e.g. they all have working card machines now…

Re: The Uber Bubble

#408

Post by kwhitefoot »

funklute wrote: post #401
nicbou wrote: post #384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine making the same argument for 7 year old chimney sweeps in Victorian England, and the flaw in your argument becomes more obvious. OP choses not to hire underpaid and overworked labour because it's wrong, even if doing so would provide temporary relief.

> Imagine making the same argument for 7 year old chimney sweeps in Victorian England, and the flaw in your argument becomes more obvious. It doesn't make it any more obvious to me. That 7 year old Victorian chimney sweep still has to eat. If society doesn't have the infrastructure to take care of them, then the other alternative is to starve, possibly to death. Refusing to hire these workers only makes things better…

> That 7 year old Victorian chimney sweep still has to eat. If society doesn't have the infrastructure to take care of them, then the other alternative is to starve, possibly to death.

Yet we no longer have 7 year old chimney sweeps. Refusing to hire one now is one part of the process that changes society so that the missing infrastructure that you mentioned gets provided for future potential 7 year old chimney sweeps.

Re: The Uber Bubble

#409

Post by kwhitefoot »

meowtimemania wrote: post #323
arthurofbabylon wrote: post #268

When traveling in India, I foolishly took a cycle rickshaw. It was gross/shameful. A man far less fortunate than I was sweating, working hard, barely getting paid, and breathing horribly polluted New Delhi air while I just sat there. When Uber started to squeeze its drivers, I again felt just like this. I hated hearing drivers complain about their life problems. I hated doing the math and seeing how little these peop…

I used to live in Latin America and I would avoid hiring shoe-shiner kids in spite of them following me each day. I thought it was sad to see these kids working at such an early age and thought hiring them would be me exploiting them. In hindsight I should’ve just hired them, they need the money. it’s horrible people live in poverty and have to work such jobs, but IMO hiring them helps them more than not hiring them.

No, hiring them to shine your shoes would not have helped, it only perpetuates the system. What is needed is a social change that eliminates the need. Sadly this sometimes only happens when the oppressed party suffers enough to elicit real sympathetic action or in extreme cases an uprising.

As you didn't hire them, presumably your shoes didn't need shining so they were not really performing a necessary function anyway. This suggests that the system continues to exist partly because some people like the idea of paying a pittance to someone to perform a menial job simply because it makes them feel good or superior instead of donating that money to an effort to eliminate the poverty in question.

Re: The Uber Bubble

#410

Post by sytelus »

Has anyone actually verified the numbers? Per my calculation, per hour cost of running a car in US is about $17. Minimum wage is $15/hr. In my experience, Uber/Lyft charges comfortably so the drivers earn above minimum wage. I have in fact met few drivers who owns multiple cars “Ubering” around because it is profitable to them. This has also been previously verified by Forbes when they compared full time Uber drivers income with taxi driver income and concluded that Uber drivers often earned 20% or more.

The article makes bold claims that Uber is killing “efficient” taxi companies using capital but presents no real data. In reality, taxi companies have much larger overhead because large chunk of revenue simply goes into medalian owner’s pockets purely as passive income. Additionally, they need to have staff for recruiting, maintainence, legal, radio etc. There is NO theaoratical reason why app based taxi company cannot beat traditional taxi company just on efficiency.

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