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Why The 99% Should Protest Against Y Combinator

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Re: Why The 99% Should Protest Against Y Combinator

#81

Post by thomasgerbe »

no_no_procrast wrote: post #47

I agree with most people here that Monsanto is probably as evil as companies can get, but let's analyze the situation for a second, because there are some confused emotions at play here. The original opening statement went "Fuck Monsanto, and by association, fuck Cloudant". This an emotional statement, a matter of moral outrage. What is the outrage directed toward? Well, to Monsanto and companies that deal with them?…

"pg hinted also hinted at this by saying that Cloudant is held to a different standard than all the other companies that deal with Monsanto."

Doesn't there seem to be hypocrisy? So YC companies have their values rise and more recognition because of the name and affirmation from the YC core but if users expect them to abide by a higher set of standards, it's all... "hold on a second, we're like any other company and shouldn't be held to a different standard?"

For the record, I don't think I would've care as much about this had the company not released such an enthusiastic PR post.

Re: Why The 99% Should Protest Against Y Combinator

#82

Post by baddox »

anigbrowl wrote: post #53
zzzeek wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this "voting with your dollars" thing is a bunch of bullshit. It's virtually impossible to live in modern society, engaging in commerce with any number of vendors that are invariably linked to multinational companies which are themselves highly interlinked, without money going to many companies we'd prefer it didn't, any more than it's feasible to live in a town governed by a government you vehemently disagree with,…

this "voting with your dollars" thing is a bunch of bullshit. Tell that to RIM or Netflix.

It's different when you're choosing whether or not to directly be a customer of a company.

Re: Why The 99% Should Protest Against Y Combinator

#83

Post by Dylan16807 »

Bud wrote: post #78
anigbrowl wrote: post #6

'Fuck Monsanto, and by association, fuck Cloudant' is not a constructive opening to a conversation. If that poster had started by saying 'This announcement makes me not want to do business with Cloudant. Here's why...' then I'd largely agree with you. You are right that Monsanto is a politically radioactive company, so putting out a cheery press release about becoming a core technology supplier displays a misundersta…

Point of order: he didn't "rave and swear at people". He raved and sweared at a gigantic corporation. Let's not get sloppy.

And at a little startup.

Re: Why The 99% Should Protest Against Y Combinator

#84

Post by pgroves »

femto wrote: post #19

Idea for a startup: a ratings service to track and rate the ethics/values of companies. This company would be to ethics as S&P is to finance. It would probably have more clout though, if it has a way of distributing its product to the person in the street. The person in the street probably cares more about ethical performance than finance performance when they are making daily buying decisions.

This has been done for the sake of creating an 'ethical' investment vehicle. There were a few index funds that were built around investing in ethical companies.

The problem was that over time almost every company in the S&P500 made it into the indices. The example I remember off the top of my head was a company with a terrible environmental record getting on the list of 'good' companies due to their generous maternity leave policy.

Gigantic companies are so gigantic that they have many examples of good and evil inside them, just like every other organization full of humans.

Re: Why The 99% Should Protest Against Y Combinator

#85

Post by ImprovedSilence »

zzzeek wrote: post #16
nostrademons wrote: post #7

Do you buy any food at all that is not grown by local organic farmers? If you do, chances are you have a much stronger business relationship with Monsanto than Paul Graham does. After all, you are directly giving money to a supermarket, which is giving it to a big agribusiness, which either is Monsanto or is a customer of Monsanto. All these evil things that Monsanto does? They're done with your money. Contrast that…

this "voting with your dollars" thing is a bunch of bullshit. It's virtually impossible to live in modern society, engaging in commerce with any number of vendors that are invariably linked to multinational companies which are themselves highly interlinked, without money going to many companies we'd prefer it didn't, any more than it's feasible to live in a town governed by a government you vehemently disagree with,…

"This 'voting with your dollars' thing is a bunch of bullshit." At the risk of sounding overly stereotypical, the Jewish community seems to be pretty good at it, and they have built a very good community of support for themselves. Heck, I know people who still wont let anyone in their family buy German cars.

Re: Why The 99% Should Protest Against Y Combinator

#86

Post by shn »

I hate Monsanto. Who would not hate pure evil? When I say this I am not trying to be derogatory or anything, what Monsanto does is nothing but killing future of humanity. They are in the business of eradicating earth as we know it. Monsanto is the pinnacle of the dark side of corporate America. (Oh please, I am not anti-capitalist or anything.)

If you make some research about Monsanto you will find that the last thing you want is to have any association with that company. Those who know this fact is reacting, and probably reacting improperly. However I can't blame, but HN is not the place to express it. My sole purpose of hanging out at HN is finding inspiration, technical insight for building stuff, feel the excitement of people who achieved it, expand my understanding of business etc. I am upset that such commentary was even posted on HN.

PG should know that I did and will up-vote anything that speak against Monsanto, even if it is expressed at the wrong place and with wrong argument. On the other hand I am deeply saddened by being called dumb by someone I admire. Aren't we tired of binary logic? I expected more from him, he should not have said "you are either with us (smart) or against us (dumb)."

Re: Why The 99% Should Protest Against Y Combinator

#87

Post by goo »

"Apparently he finds his own customers/supporters dumb."

An HN user is neither a customer or a supporter. In fact, they may even directly inhibit PG's goals.

From a business perspective, HN exists to draw the attention of smart hackers likely to build businesses which will make lots of money (for example, by making deals with companies like Monsanto).

I think in the past PG has actively tried to dissuade people from participating in HN when those people are dumb (e.g. Erlang). Although it's a losing battle, maintaining the focus and quality of an online community is a worthy task. Doing so certainly does not preclude expressing that people are dumb.

Re: Why The 99% Should Protest Against Y Combinator

#88

Post by natrius »

msredmond wrote: post #60

Unless I'm mistaken, the root of this entire thing is the PRESS RELEASE -- very basic rule is that you don't promote something regarding your company if it's going to be received negatively by a significant # of people. So this was a really bad PR decision compounded by another PR error in the company commenting on the effect of original bad decision. They should just accept that there was a mistake made (by either t…

You're assuming it's bad PR. The people who are complaining about this aren't particularly likely to be potential Cloudant customers. On the other hand, the rest of the Fortune 500 is probably more likely to become a Cloudant customer as a result of the press release. In fact, the firestorm the press release caused only exposed it to more potential customers who are unlikely to share the same negative feelings.

Re: Why The 99% Should Protest Against Y Combinator

#89

Post by chadp »

tlogan wrote: post #17
biznickman wrote: post #12

I should just clarify for anybody here who's reading this ... the point wasn't that Cloudant is wrong. The point is that there's a massive void for values-based leadership and we should expect that from any leader, big or small. Values-based leadership is the future of the marketplace in my opinion, and hence the post. I should also say that it's pretty impressive that this made it on hackernews. I wasn't expecting t…

Exactly. Consumers are now choosing products and which companies to support based on values they see that company (and companies' leadership) stands for. The older generation maybe don't see that but it is clear trend: your story as a company must match what your customer's world view. So this Cloudant news just show that their values don't match world view of majority developers / hackers / libertarians and as resul…

Who are you to speak on the behalf of the MAJORITY of hackers, developers and libertarians?
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