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Why The 99% Should Protest Against Y Combinator

nickoneill.com

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Re: Why The 99% Should Protest Against Y Combinator

#11

Post by nostrademons »

rrival wrote: post #9
nostrademons wrote: post #7

Do you buy any food at all that is not grown by local organic farmers? If you do, chances are you have a much stronger business relationship with Monsanto than Paul Graham does. After all, you are directly giving money to a supermarket, which is giving it to a big agribusiness, which either is Monsanto or is a customer of Monsanto. All these evil things that Monsanto does? They're done with your money. Contrast that…

Is it that evil is efficient or that being "good" (providing positive externalities in the process of delivering goods/services) is less efficient?

Aren't those basically the same statement?

I'd agree more with your second phrasing, as it's more nuanced, but they seem to be getting the same general idea across.

Re: Why The 99% Should Protest Against Y Combinator

#12

Post by biznickman »

I should just clarify for anybody here who's reading this ... the point wasn't that Cloudant is wrong. The point is that there's a massive void for values-based leadership and we should expect that from any leader, big or small. Values-based leadership is the future of the marketplace in my opinion, and hence the post.

I should also say that it's pretty impressive that this made it on hackernews. I wasn't expecting this to hit the front page. It's nice to see they are open.

Re: Why The 99% Should Protest Against Y Combinator

#13

Post by DilipJ »

baddox wrote: post #5

I agree with pg on this one, and I find Nick O'Neill's arguments to be as ludicrous as O'Neill seems to find pg's. This must be a fundamental, deeply ingrained, clear-cut difference in the way people think.

I think they are both right (or both wrong). Or maybe they are not talking about the same thing.

I think O'Neill believes Monsanto to be a far worse company than pg (or I, for that matter) do. It's an agrochemical company that does engage in strong-arm legal tactics, but at the same time, it's not on the level of IBM working with the Germans in the 1930's. O'Neill does have a point in that in a free society, consumers have a right to choose which products to purchase and which companies to support, and if they want to politicize that decision it is entirely their right to do so. pg would likely agree with statement. So the only real disagreement between the two would probably come down to how "bad" a company Monsanto is, in their view. pg obviously views it in a far more benign light than O'Neill does.

the "99%" talk is irrelevant. The 99'ers focus seems to be (or should be) on the parasitic nature of Wall Street and their close relationship to the Treasury Dept. and the Federal Reserve, and not on corporate ethics in general.

Re: Why The 99% Should Protest Against Y Combinator

#14

Post by biznickman »

nostrademons wrote: post #7

Do you buy any food at all that is not grown by local organic farmers? If you do, chances are you have a much stronger business relationship with Monsanto than Paul Graham does. After all, you are directly giving money to a supermarket, which is giving it to a big agribusiness, which either is Monsanto or is a customer of Monsanto. All these evil things that Monsanto does? They're done with your money. Contrast that…

"If Monsanto's business practices bother you, factor that into your purchasing decisions. There are dozens of local organic farmers that would love to have your business. They usually charge more, because evil is efficient."

You've hit the nail on the head and that's exactly what I say at the end of the post. I have a feeling most people didn't make it down that far.

As for my own purchasing behavior (which isn't relevant to the post), I do try to purchase organic as often as possible ;) It's still debatable whether or not it's worth while.

Re: Why The 99% Should Protest Against Y Combinator

#16

Post by zzzeek »

nostrademons wrote: post #7

Do you buy any food at all that is not grown by local organic farmers? If you do, chances are you have a much stronger business relationship with Monsanto than Paul Graham does. After all, you are directly giving money to a supermarket, which is giving it to a big agribusiness, which either is Monsanto or is a customer of Monsanto. All these evil things that Monsanto does? They're done with your money. Contrast that…

this "voting with your dollars" thing is a bunch of bullshit. It's virtually impossible to live in modern society, engaging in commerce with any number of vendors that are invariably linked to multinational companies which are themselves highly interlinked, without money going to many companies we'd prefer it didn't, any more than it's feasible to live in a town governed by a government you vehemently disagree with, without using the roads they happen to be paving. Monsanto's practices should be regulated, those regulations enacted by a government which we elect with actual votes, not dollars; end of story.

edit: my wife and I do in fact work at a local food coop and buy about 90% organic or at least locally grown; they sell a few products linked to companies like Monsanto but these are clearly labeled with things like "GMO" - we certainly don't go near them. But we're lucky enough to live in a place that actually has a non-profit food coop and the economic freedom to have the time to work in such a place.

Re: Why The 99% Should Protest Against Y Combinator

#17

Post by tlogan »

biznickman wrote: post #12

I should just clarify for anybody here who's reading this ... the point wasn't that Cloudant is wrong. The point is that there's a massive void for values-based leadership and we should expect that from any leader, big or small. Values-based leadership is the future of the marketplace in my opinion, and hence the post. I should also say that it's pretty impressive that this made it on hackernews. I wasn't expecting t…

Exactly. Consumers are now choosing products and which companies to support based on values they see that company (and companies' leadership) stands for. The older generation maybe don't see that but it is clear trend: your story as a company must match what your customer's world view.

So this Cloudant news just show that their values don't match world view of majority developers / hackers / libertarians and as result of that they should not expect to be very popular on hacker news.

Re: Why The 99% Should Protest Against Y Combinator

#18

Post by mthreat »

I started thinking this through and here's a problem I see. If companies decide to only do business with other "good" companies, then they have to decide whether every potential customer is "good" or not. How do you define it - where do you draw the line? Do you hire another person to make this decision? Outsource it? Or maybe there's a y-combinator startup that provides an API call - isCompanyEvil(company_name).

Re: Why The 99% Should Protest Against Y Combinator

#19

Post by femto »

Idea for a startup: a ratings service to track and rate the ethics/values of companies. This company would be to ethics as S&P is to finance. It would probably have more clout though, if it has a way of distributing its product to the person in the street. The person in the street probably cares more about ethical performance than finance performance when they are making daily buying decisions.

Re: Why The 99% Should Protest Against Y Combinator

#20

Post by staunch »

Why would we lynch Cloudant, but Apple and other companies (that make much more money from Monsanto) get a free pass?

Of course a startup is excited to get a big client, as they should be. If Apple was a small company and signed a deal with Monsanto they'd probably make a big deal about it too.

For a startup a big client can be the difference between success and failure in the early days. Apple has no such excuse, they could refuse to sell to Monsanto if they wanted to. Why don't you do something that requires real sacrifice, like boycott your favorite company, instead of harassing a little startup?

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