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Why The 99% Should Protest Against Y Combinator

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Re: Why The 99% Should Protest Against Y Combinator

#61

Post by anigbrowl »

rictic wrote: post #56
anigbrowl wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this "voting with your dollars" thing is a bunch of bullshit. Tell that to RIM or Netflix.

Isn't that voting based on perceived quality of product (which I don't believe is in dispute) rather than an ethical objection of some kind?

Yes, but a vote is a vote. Why people vote the way they do is irrelevant. Certainly, it's hard to get people to count business ethics as an economic factor, but clearly some do. My supermarket is full of products touting themselves as cruelty-free, or additive-free etc., and the number only seems to be growing. It's a slow process, but nowadays sustainability counts for a lot more with consumers than it used to do.

Re: Why The 99% Should Protest Against Y Combinator

#62

Post by sitkack »

staunch wrote: post #58
lwat wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple don't put out press releases saying 'We're proud to be working with Monsanto'

They would if they were an early stage startup and just got their first big order.

Then they would be lynched.

Re: Why The 99% Should Protest Against Y Combinator

#63

Post by ivankirigin » 

  I don’t fully understand the business of Cloudant to be honest...
Why would anyone read past this point? Why is this on hacker news? The reaction to Cloudant's post is shocking.

Cloudant deals in hosting lots of data. They just got a client that trusts them with huge amounts of data. That is why the press release and story are reasonable. Everything else is knee-jerk politics.

Re: Why The 99% Should Protest Against Y Combinator

#64

Post by callmeed »

"now you know that Monsanto is hated. I mean deeply hated by people around the world"

Go downtown and grab 20 random people. Ask them "what are your opinions on Monsanto?" I'd be willing to wager the most common response would be sone form of "who?" or "I don't know"

Re: Why The 99% Should Protest Against Y Combinator

#65

Post by iand »

prostoalex wrote: post #48
zzzeek wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this "voting with your dollars" thing is a bunch of bullshit. It's virtually impossible to live in modern society, engaging in commerce with any number of vendors that are invariably linked to multinational companies which are themselves highly interlinked, without money going to many companies we'd prefer it didn't, any more than it's feasible to live in a town governed by a government you vehemently disagree with,…

Well, look at it this way: * You're GIVING Monsanto the money. * Cloudant is TAKING money from Monsanto. So who's the Robin Hood here?

Any free trade involves an increase in value on both sides by definition. Cloudant takes the money and provides something that Monsanto values more than that money. If they didn't get that then they wouldn't be buying.

Re: Why The 99% Should Protest Against Y Combinator

#66

Post by lukeschlather »

prostoalex wrote: post #48
zzzeek wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this "voting with your dollars" thing is a bunch of bullshit. It's virtually impossible to live in modern society, engaging in commerce with any number of vendors that are invariably linked to multinational companies which are themselves highly interlinked, without money going to many companies we'd prefer it didn't, any more than it's feasible to live in a town governed by a government you vehemently disagree with,…

Well, look at it this way: * You're GIVING Monsanto the money. * Cloudant is TAKING money from Monsanto. So who's the Robin Hood here?

Unless Cloudant is selling vapourware, no one.

Re: Why The 99% Should Protest Against Y Combinator

#67

Post by thomasgerbe »

run4yourlives wrote: post #32
nostrademons wrote: post #7

Do you buy any food at all that is not grown by local organic farmers? If you do, chances are you have a much stronger business relationship with Monsanto than Paul Graham does. After all, you are directly giving money to a supermarket, which is giving it to a big agribusiness, which either is Monsanto or is a customer of Monsanto. All these evil things that Monsanto does? They're done with your money. Contrast that…

I'm not a Monsanto fan at all, and actually called out pg on his comment, but you are 100% correct in your analysis of where the real source of "evil" comes from. That being said, the emergence of the organic food movement and such businesses such as Whole Foods goes to show that people are starting to adjust their spending habits. In an effort to support this, I'm sure you'd agree that the end consumer should be sup…

Which is why Monsanto is lobbying to "ban the practice of distinguishing between milk from farms pledged not to use rBST and those that do."

Very insidious.

Re: Why The 99% Should Protest Against Y Combinator

#68

Post by baddox »

seven_stones wrote: post #44
baddox wrote: post #5

I agree with pg on this one, and I find Nick O'Neill's arguments to be as ludicrous as O'Neill seems to find pg's. This must be a fundamental, deeply ingrained, clear-cut difference in the way people think.

By analogy, imagine someone wearing an Abercrombie & Fitch shirt. They are trying to associate themselves with a well-known brand in order to gain some kind of status or legitimacy. But when you do that, you are also at risk of people associating you with things like Jersey Shore and sweatshops, employment discrimination, superficiality, and so on. (A&F was so concerned that it has offered to pay Jersey Shore cast me…

There seems to be two similar but fundamentally different arguments here. The first is that this press release was unwise, because many people will be upset that Cloudant would do business with Monsanto. The second is that actually doing business with Monsanto is unwise/immoral/unethical.

PR is a fuzzy science at best, and I'm no expert, so I won't claim to know how wise the press release is. I'm sure that Cloudant was excited to acquire a large customer (rightfully so), and that issuing a press release can impress investors, other potential customers, and the start-up community.

It's the second argument that I vehemently disagree with. If some corporation feels that it would be unethical to do business with Monsanto, then by all means refuse to do so. But to argue for an embargo against Monsanto, and imply that any company that does business with Monsanto is in the wrong, is wildly inappropriate and unfair. No doubt countless other corporations do business with Monsanto: PC manufacturers, construction teams, office suppliers, not to mention utility companies that keep Monsanto running, shipping companies that deliver to and from Monsanto, etc. I agree with pg that to argue for an embargo against Monsanto is quite extreme, and it's unfair to hold Cloudant to such a standard.

Re: Why The 99% Should Protest Against Y Combinator

#69

Post by andylei »

dlss wrote: post #40
nostrademons wrote: post #7

Do you buy any food at all that is not grown by local organic farmers? If you do, chances are you have a much stronger business relationship with Monsanto than Paul Graham does. After all, you are directly giving money to a supermarket, which is giving it to a big agribusiness, which either is Monsanto or is a customer of Monsanto. All these evil things that Monsanto does? They're done with your money. Contrast that…

This post being at the top worries me more than the post PG replied to :-/ 1. You seem to think that consuming a GMO is a riskless way to save money. Consider reading "Assessment of the food safety issues related to genetically modified foods" by Kuiper et al. or similar to understand how scientists currently asses risks for GMO food, and then the history of any substance later discovered to be harmful to humans (I r…

> ... and have an increased risk for all sorts of disease. See #1. What odds do you give that GMOs do not cause an increase in disease? In light of that number being non-zero, would you like to take back this statement?

GMOs, herbicides, and pesticides have saved hundreds of millions of lives from death by famine. Current levels of food production are not possible with GMOs.

> GMO race, as the potential benefit is something like $3/meal and the potential cost includes things like cancer.

That's a lot of money. In America, where people make $7 / hour, its easy to say, we'd all be better off eating non GMOs, but in many parts of India, Africa, and China, when people make $7 / week, GMOs lower prices to sustainable levels. Note that when I say "sustainable", I mean "able to sustain currently levels of human population".

Re: Why The 99% Should Protest Against Y Combinator

#70

Post by biznickman »

Shenglong wrote: post #43

I like all the logical fallacies that have been thrown around in this article. While the “99 percent” don’t yet have a clear outline for how they’re going to change things, one thing is clear: they’re frustrated. No, you're frustrated. The 99% have no idea how this even affects them. But that's how it goes, right? Sanctimonious preachers denouncing practices they don't care to understand, and don't have a solution to…

Your last point: "try and make peoples' lives suck less" ... what happens if you make one group's lives suck less while making another group worse? That's the bigger point.

As for the 99% being frustrated, that's all it's about, no? It's a bunch of people that started posting photos of themselves voicing their frustrations about not having a job, and other issues that they have.

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