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Why The 99% Should Protest Against Y Combinator

nickoneill.com

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Re: Why The 99% Should Protest Against Y Combinator

#41

Post by sunahsuh »

dotBen wrote: post #26
anigbrowl wrote: post #6

'Fuck Monsanto, and by association, fuck Cloudant' is not a constructive opening to a conversation. If that poster had started by saying 'This announcement makes me not want to do business with Cloudant. Here's why...' then I'd largely agree with you. You are right that Monsanto is a politically radioactive company, so putting out a cheery press release about becoming a core technology supplier displays a misundersta…

I didn't write the original comment being referred to but I reserve the right to drop the F bomb where appropriate. This is real life, we're adults, and it is possible to communicate and deliver an astute/sophisticated/poignant perspective using expletives (just as much as it isn't). If you're offended by someone writing 'fuck' then you need to grow some testicular fortitude. swearing is not equal to the 'aggressive…

I refuse to grow some fucking testicular fortitude and resent your implication that fortitude is masculine ;)

Re: Why The 99% Should Protest Against Y Combinator

#42

Post by bmj »

Alex3917 wrote: post #24
zzzeek wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this "voting with your dollars" thing is a bunch of bullshit. It's virtually impossible to live in modern society, engaging in commerce with any number of vendors that are invariably linked to multinational companies which are themselves highly interlinked, without money going to many companies we'd prefer it didn't, any more than it's feasible to live in a town governed by a government you vehemently disagree with,…

"This 'voting with your dollars' thing is a bunch of bullshit." It's not all or nothing. If everyone would just subscribe to a CSA and buy the rest of their stuff from the grocery store then that alone would completely shift the face of food production in this country.

Agreed. Yes, consumers taking down Monsanto would be a rather large task, but that doesn't mean you can't do your best to support the other players (particularly those that might better fit your ethical framework). Money does very much talk in the U.S. (note how our political system works--donors and lobbyists)--it's just a matter of having enough of it (or, in the case of Monsanto, taking it away) to make a difference.

Not everyone has access to a CSA, and that's okay, too--you can still find ways to get at least some of your food that isn't a product of Big Ag.

Re: Why The 99% Should Protest Against Y Combinator

#43

Post by Shenglong »

I like all the logical fallacies that have been thrown around in this article.

While the “99 percent” don’t yet have a clear outline for how they’re going to change things, one thing is clear: they’re frustrated. No, you're frustrated. The 99% have no idea how this even affects them. But that's how it goes, right? Sanctimonious preachers denouncing practices they don't care to understand, and don't have a solution to, while the 99% follow along blindly for "the cause".

Additionally, if YCombinator is promoting a world where values don’t matter and economic transactions are the only thing that do, then they are truly part of the old guard.

I'm missing the logical link between Y Combinator promoting such, and pg's comment. I've had the opportunity to speak to some YC founders, and the two stunning things I remember is "make things that people want", and "try and make peoples' lives suck less".

Re: Why The 99% Should Protest Against Y Combinator

#44

Post by seven_stones »

baddox wrote: post #5

I agree with pg on this one, and I find Nick O'Neill's arguments to be as ludicrous as O'Neill seems to find pg's. This must be a fundamental, deeply ingrained, clear-cut difference in the way people think.

By analogy, imagine someone wearing an Abercrombie & Fitch shirt.

They are trying to associate themselves with a well-known brand in order to gain some kind of status or legitimacy.

But when you do that, you are also at risk of people associating you with things like Jersey Shore and sweatshops, employment discrimination, superficiality, and so on.

(A&F was so concerned that it has offered to pay Jersey Shore cast members to STOP wearing their brand.)

Large corporations tend to avoid issues seen as "controversial". It's not necessarily about right or wrong, it's about anything divisive enough to possibly be a significant detriment to their brand image.

When the NUMBER ONE Google result for "world's most evil company" has your name on it, you are PR kyrptonite.

The only person to blame is the flabbergastingly unaware CEO of Cloudant.

This is on par with "YC robotics startup chosen as #1 supplier of automated puppy-gassing chambers by animal control!"

Re: Why The 99% Should Protest Against Y Combinator

#45

Post by chadp »

PG's response is 100% correct. It is the OP moral or religious viewpoint and that is all. One view point.

Find another way to lobby against causes you believe in, don't expect random businesses to boycott a cause just because you believe in it. Others may not.

Re: Why The 99% Should Protest Against Y Combinator

#47

Post by no_no_procrast »

I agree with most people here that Monsanto is probably as evil as companies can get, but let's analyze the situation for a second, because there are some confused emotions at play here.

The original opening statement went "Fuck Monsanto, and by association, fuck Cloudant". This an emotional statement, a matter of moral outrage. What is the outrage directed toward? Well, to Monsanto and companies that deal with them? Nope. Because if that were the true outrage should be proportional to how much a company benefits Monsanto. In the big scheme of things Cloudant is not going to make that big a difference, moral outrage should instead be directed to the companies and institutions that Monsanto depends on. But those companies don't advertise their dealings with Monsanto, for reasons that should be obvious by now.

But wait a second... what is Cloudant guilty of? Poor PR judgement. Nothing more. Does that justify moral outrage? I don't think so. Moral outrage is a useful emotion, but it should always be followed up by some rational analysis. The cause of the outrage is the PR statement, not the fact that Cloudant and Monsanto are in business together.

pg hinted also hinted at this by saying that Cloudant is held to a different standard than all the other companies that deal with Monsanto. Nick O'Neill argues that pg therefore supports the PR statement and that this all reflects badly on YC and the moral fiber of the YC people. That's just taking it all way out of proportion.

I probably would have taken the moral high ground and refused to do business with Monsanto. But always taking the moral high ground is a huge handicap. If you want to have a shot at building a billion dollar company you can't afford to play with too large a handicap. The game is difficult enough as is. And if you succeed the world is going to much better off because of your business.

We read today that Jeff Bezos is a tyrant and micro-manager. So was Steve Jobs. Books have been written about the ruthlessness of Bill Gates. Larry Elison? Check. Even Richard Branson (who is a stand-up guy) committed $100k of tax fraud when he was young. Alan Sugar? Ruthless. Would we be better off without these guys? Hell no. Should we shun and shame them? Again, nope. It's better to take 10 steps forward and a half step back than to refuse to move at all.

Re: Why The 99% Should Protest Against Y Combinator

#48

Post by prostoalex »

zzzeek wrote: post #16
nostrademons wrote: post #7

Do you buy any food at all that is not grown by local organic farmers? If you do, chances are you have a much stronger business relationship with Monsanto than Paul Graham does. After all, you are directly giving money to a supermarket, which is giving it to a big agribusiness, which either is Monsanto or is a customer of Monsanto. All these evil things that Monsanto does? They're done with your money. Contrast that…

this "voting with your dollars" thing is a bunch of bullshit. It's virtually impossible to live in modern society, engaging in commerce with any number of vendors that are invariably linked to multinational companies which are themselves highly interlinked, without money going to many companies we'd prefer it didn't, any more than it's feasible to live in a town governed by a government you vehemently disagree with,…

Well, look at it this way:

* You're GIVING Monsanto the money.

* Cloudant is TAKING money from Monsanto.

So who's the Robin Hood here?

Re: Why The 99% Should Protest Against Y Combinator

#50

Post by sunahsuh »

femto wrote: post #19

Idea for a startup: a ratings service to track and rate the ethics/values of companies. This company would be to ethics as S&P is to finance. It would probably have more clout though, if it has a way of distributing its product to the person in the street. The person in the street probably cares more about ethical performance than finance performance when they are making daily buying decisions.

I've been looking for something like that as I've been thinking about restarting an investment account. Want a founding partner? ;)
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