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A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

theatlantic.com

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Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#671

Post by op00to »

jelliclesfarm wrote: post #665
op00to wrote: post #579

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, there should not be a law about this. What possible reason would there be for being prevented by law to talk about your life? When is it OK to talk, and when is it not?

Because it is defamation. Anyone can talk about their lives, but when you start talking about someone else without their permission to make money..I am actually pretty sure there is a already a law against it.

It’s only defamation if the statement is false and you can prove some sort of harm was done.

Really? You can’t write about anyone else? How do newspapers exist? Biographies?

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#672

Post by NateEag »

nvusuvu wrote: post #242
NateEag wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds to me like your wife's reaction was not actually about the tea. If she described that as "too controlling", that likely indicates she perceives you as too controlling overall. Regardless of the truth of her perceptions, they're all she has to go on in life, so it's her perceptions that matter, not the "objective truth" of whether you're controlling. I don't know you or your wife at all - my analysis could b…

I have the book open on my desk right now. I really wish I could have read it sooner in my marriage, like before my marriage. Would have made for a lot less bumpy road. But we are in a better place now, almost 20 years later! :)

> I really wish I could have read it sooner in my marriage, like before my marriage.

A thousand times this, yes.

I may start giving it to people as an engagement present, now that you say that...

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#673

Post by s1artibartfast »

AussieWog93 wrote: post #571
dre85 wrote: post #550

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm in a marriage and I struggle with this same question. I sometimes feel like the things my wife cares about are essentially endless. Like if I bend to "her way" and put effort into consistently placing the dirty cup in the dishwasher, next week something new comes up. Then it's the clothes on the floor of my side of the bed or not hanging my jacket or not putting my shoes away perfectly in the closet. At times I g…

>Like if I bend to "her way" and put effort into consistently placing the dirty cup in the dishwasher, next week something new comes up. Then it's the clothes on the floor of my side of the bed or not hanging my jacket or not putting my shoes away perfectly in the closet. At times I get the sensation that it just becomes like waking on eggshells to constantly mitigate somebody's upsetness of irrelevant (to me) things…

>I don't understand the complaint here. It sounds like your wife is trying to get you, incrementally, to act like a responsible adult

The fundamental conflict is that the person and their wife's goals are not aligned.

If the husband does not want to develop into a "responsible adult" in this respect, their goals are not aligned. A good partner can help the other achieve their goals, but but if there is no alignment on the who one partner wants to be and work towards, this will always be a source of conflict.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#674

Post by spadros »

AlwaysRock wrote: post #25
ay wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are triggered by anything it is something you need to ask yourself why. And why you are with that person then, if they are triggering you. With some (minor) exceptions, what people are getting in their relationships is at least 50% result of their own choices, and not owning that only prolongs the effects.

I cant think of worse relationship advise than be with someone who never triggers a negative response in you.

What? You want more negative experiences? That defines a good relationship for you?

I can’t think of a better goal than to be with somebody so compatible that you have minimal friction and minimal issues.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#675

Post by spadros »

smackeyacky wrote: post #605
AlwaysRock wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Something that is trivial to one may be very large to another. There is a whole slew of reasons why but just because one partner deems something trivial the other may not agree. Some things may objectively be trivial but we are a complex species. The flip side of this argument is that if its so trivial for one, why don't they change the behavior for the other who deems it non trivial?

Because this kind of behaviour is endemic in emotional abusers. There will always be something else that annoys them. Emotional abusers look for weaknesses and exploit them mercilessly. They don't really care about the issue and will move on to something else, ad infinitum. This is the very reason why you never give a bully or a narcissist a single inch. What they are trying to do is keep you off balance, make you wa…

I agree with you. I think this article is meaningless click bait TBH. The whole time I was thinking “or the marriage was ruined by the wife not being able to let a trivial non-issue go”. Seems like she was the one building resent over something that didn’t matter.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#676

Post by khazhoux »

captaincaveman wrote: post #501
jrm4 wrote: post #114

I'd suppose the thing I'd warn here: Remember that, by definition, this article was written by a failure -- meaning that the likelihood that they fully understand the situation even now is still pretty low; especially since they're still likely in a sense seeking validation by writing the article. Ideally, you'd like to hear from a success. And at the risk being the horn-tooter, (married for 15+ years), when I read t…

hmmm marriages fail after 15 years too, at what point do you declare success?

It's not symmetric. Success is a constant work-in-progress.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#677

Post by jelliclesfarm »

op00to wrote: post #671
jelliclesfarm wrote: post #665

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it is defamation. Anyone can talk about their lives, but when you start talking about someone else without their permission to make money..I am actually pretty sure there is a already a law against it.

It’s only defamation if the statement is false and you can prove some sort of harm was done. Really? You can’t write about anyone else? How do newspapers exist? Biographies?

This is a marriage. They are not celebrities. He is profiting from the dissolution of a marriage with a one sided narrative.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#678

Post by openknot »

llbeansandrice wrote: post #656
openknot wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read the article and felt sad. There's a lot of emotionally charged language (repeatedly: "I was a shitty husband"), but stripping away that language, his main point is consistent with his Atlantic article. Namely, that while he tried to be a good husband for the 'big issues' (e.g. never cheating), he was neglectful for the little things, and didn't give her enough attention or care. My interpretation is that the d…

>the ex-spouse at least has an iota responsibility to identify the feelings of neglect, rather than pointing out the neglectful habits without reflecting on why she was so bothered them. While this isn't really wrong I think it just derails what the main point of the article is. >'big issues' (e.g. never cheating) This baseline of "at least I don't cheat" or "at least I can provide" (implicitly saying things like "at…

I agree that the baseline isn't enough. My intention was to summarize his initial perspective (that it was enough), then question whether his self-criticism (he's a "shitty husband" because he didn't see it soon enough) draws the right conclusions.

My view is that I don't think it's healthy for him to take all the blame. He had a responsibility to care more, but his spouse also had the opportunity to communicate about her feelings of neglect. His harsh self-criticism is unhealthy, and not something to emulate (though I agree with his point about caring about low-level requests from a partner).

If a person takes all the blame for any negative situation in life, it can be empowering to an extent, but it can also stop a person from moving on from the past (for reference, his divorce was in 2013, but he's still analyzing it as of 2022).

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#679

Post by spadros »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #10
ay wrote: post #8

It’s very simple. If something is minor for you but your partner prompts you extensively that it triggers them - change yourself. The willingness to listen and change yourself is what signals your love. Because everything else is much easier.

This is easy to get wrong. She says "X bugs me". But to me, X should not have been a big deal, so it doesn't register with me. Maybe she says it again, and I still think it's no big deal. Finally we reach the point where she's crying, and she tells me " X really bothers me ". And I realize: "Oh, yeah, she's told me that before..." So, you know, be smarter than I've been. When she says that something bugs her, don't f…

Where’s the limit here? How trivial of an action is one allowed to build resent over? At what point should one just grow up and try to love the imperfections of the partner they married?

Sounded like the wife was the one with the issue. And it doesn’t sound like the problem really was over a glass on the counter at the root of it.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#680

Post by mensetmanusman »

solveit wrote: post #619
pmoriarty wrote: post #508

Earlier quoted context omitted.

a CEO of a $100M+ company came in and gave a speech. His first slide had a PowerPoint, on which he put something like, "3...2...1." Then he said, "3 wives, 2 divorces, and 1 heart attack. That's the real cost of entrepreneurship." Plenty of people who were never entrepreneurs suffer the same or worse.. and do so while earning a tiny pittance of what CEOs make. Lack of money causes all sorts of additional stress on fa…

Presumably said CEO wasn't in much danger of poverty though. The entrepreneurship caused his troubles. That other things also could is beside the point.

Many would argue that material poverty is less important than poverty of the soul. This is why poor countries are often much happier than rich countries.
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