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A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

theatlantic.com

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Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#131

Post by greenonions »

perpetuummobile wrote: post #93

I struggle with this myself. At the risk of sounding misogynistic: How come it’s always women who can’t deal with these “minor irritations”? I’ve never heard from any of my male friends complaining in this tack.

As a counter question: why do men not recognize that these simple tasks make women feel loved and respected?

My own father is the perfect example of a man who cannot deal with these minor irritations. My mother complies with his requests and their relationship is maintained.

If you read the article, it's not that the irritation is minor. Of course it's a very small task. The issue is that the (often male) partner never chooses to act differently for the sake of their partner. If it isn't difficult to do the task, why don't you just do it? If your wife asks you to put the dishes in the dishwasher, why don't you just do it? It's not hard and will make her happy.

Obviously some people will have very unreasonable standards/requests. However, I think it's more common that one partner repeatedly refuses to do anything differently for the sake of their partner, argues about it, and then wonders why their relationship is so bad.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#133

Post by vxNsr »

bena wrote: post #80
igetspam wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems as though people are focusing on the hook and not the core argument. The author clearly states his marriage failed from "death by a thousand papercuts" and this glass-by-the-sink is an example of not understanding their spouse.

It's because the hook is a real bad example. He's not entirely in the wrong on that one. While I will trust his judgment that there were other problems and that he was in the wrong in those, the glass was one where she should have given in.

Friend, the point of it being a “small” issue is that no one will ever be entirely wrong or right. Any issue that someone brings up will be viewed as trivial by many ppl, the point is to respect your partner enough to find a way to compromise.

Sometimes compromising requires thinking far outside the box. For example, buy this guy a in-home water bottle that he alone is responsible for cleaning. Give it a permanent place in a cupboard. Boom boom everyone compromised and showed the other one “I care about your needs”

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#134

Post by bena »

xboxnolifes wrote: post #108
bena wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's because the hook is a real bad example. He's not entirely in the wrong on that one. While I will trust his judgment that there were other problems and that he was in the wrong in those, the glass was one where she should have given in.

> the glass was one where she should have given in Why is that the case?

It's mostly an aesthetic choice. The only benefit of the glass being in the dishwasher instead of by the sink is that "it looks nicer to her". There's no real harm being done and it does not affect her in the slightest. And there's a real deep, dark, ugly rabbit hole to go down if one wants to suggest that it affects and harms her by "being unsightly".

The more I think about it, the more I think the author is trying to be deep by being shallow. Taking something we consider mundane and transforming it into a grand life lesson. Creating a parable. The problem is that he chose something that doesn't work. I, for one, will not be buying his book.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#135

Post by cassac »

giantg2 wrote: post #85
Dobbs wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't about the dishes. The dishes are just a symptom of the unequal divide of emotional labour in most relationships. Even in relationships where both parents work full time more often than not the majority of the mental and physical burden of running the house tends to fall onto the woman. Of course this isn't an absolute, but it does tend to hold true. You can see this at the outbreak of COVID where many wome…

"Even in relationships where both parents work full time more often than not the majority of the mental and physical burden of running the house tends to fall onto the woman." I'd love to see the data on this.

This is of course anecdotal, but I find many people (of all genders) like to complain when people don’t do it the way they want, and when they can’t micro manage, they get upset. If you just want it done then delegate. If you want it done YOUR way then YOU have to do it.

For example my wife always makes it sound like finding shoes for the kids is the same as planning a trip to the moon. If I say I’m going to get them shoes she says I can’t be trusted. I don’t care, the kids don’t care, but boy does it stress her out every time their feet grow.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#136

Post by BoppreH »

ceejayoz wrote: post #117
Jiro wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's the theory that the aliens are really demons and it's not water they're vulnerable to, but holy water .

A kid is filling cups with tap water to drink. At what point is a priest blessing them all?

The main character is a former priest. I don't remember any explicit blessings, but maybe being in a (ex-)priests house is enough. Or they were blessed when the protagonist found his faith again.

Or it was the daughter, who was constantly referred to as "angel".

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#137

Post by rajin444 »

hn_user82179 wrote: post #30
jayski wrote: post #24

Im 99% sure the wife in this story used the glass as an excuse to get out. If youre happy with the life youve built together and love your partner theres no way you leave it over something like this. I dont buy the "it shows disrespect" argument. Shes going to be with somebody else in a years time. But when youre in a bad situation and the other person isn't giving you a good reason to leave sometimes you have to get…

He digs into his marriage a lot more in later blog posts: https://matthewfray.com/an-open-letter-to-shitty-husbands/ . I don't think she used it as an excuse at all, but he's more using this one frequent occurrence as a metaphor for the marriage.

Reading that is wild…does he think he’ll be able to bear the burdens his wife couldn’t? He’s trying to change himself for his partner when he needs to find a different partner. He comes off as having lost all respect and confidence in himself.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#138

Post by jrm4 »

cjohnson318 wrote: post #128
jrm4 wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd take this even further. Sometimes it's 50/50. Sometimes 60/40, Sometimes 100/0. You just have to comfortable with that's how it is.

The Gottman Institute did a lot of research on the effect of accepting bids (putting the glass in the sink), ignoring bids (leaving the glass out), and rejecting bids (throwing the glass against the wall and arguing), and they determined that accepting a bid added one feeling dollar (my term) to the bank account of your marriage (my metaphor), while rejecting a bid took five out, and ignoring a bid took like ten or f…

Broadly, this is a GREAT point. I wonder if the author ever let loose with a loud "Why the f** do you think this glass is so important? It's objectively stupid and you're being ridiculous! Get over it, it's just a f**ing glass!"

Not for the truth of the point or being correct, which is impossible to determine, but for the generation of what comes next.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#139

Post by AlwaysRock »

perpetuummobile wrote: post #118
perpetuummobile wrote: post #93

I struggle with this myself. At the risk of sounding misogynistic: How come it’s always women who can’t deal with these “minor irritations”? I’ve never heard from any of my male friends complaining in this tack.

Feel free to downvote but please tell me why I am wrong. I legitimately struggle with this as is obviously clear from my tone.

You're wrong because you've bucketed half the global population either because of your blissful ignorance or because your personal anecdotal, likely very limited data and sample size, supports your belief.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#140

Post by orwin »

giantg2 wrote: post #83
snarf21 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Divorced and looking back, the root cause of this (in my experience) is a lack of empathy. Love is easy to come by while empathy requires walking in someone else's shoes. I understand this Same Fight because I lived through that. It is never about that thing, it is about not being seen. As the author is processing his divorce, it is good he sees that there is value in doing something selflessly. However, I can't help…

"Force the other person to plan weeks of meals, keep the pantry stocked, etc. shines a bigger light on the unseen work and value each partner is providing." If my wife were doing this, our grocery bill would double and it would all be frozen dinners and takeout. I'm not sure I trust her to do safety critical mechanic work either. So maybe switching isn't great for some tasks. Edit: It seems people disagree. Why? All…

You should learn to cook new dishes together. To each their own, especially in their own home, but cooking have inherent value itself for multiple reasons, and teach a lot of soft skills. And cooking together is great, if your wife agree to let you be slow and let you mess up. If you have kids especially: some of my best memories are my parents learning to cook weird asian dishes and fail or succeed together.
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