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Former Xinjiang prisoner arrives in U.S. as key witness to abuses

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Re: Former Xinjiang prisoner arrives in U.S. as key witness to abuses

#261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The feds shut down the entire facility after the allegations came out. It wasn't a case of one doctor. Well the hysterectomy thing was the one doctor (and the facility failing at its duty to properly oversee him). However, it wouldn't surprise me if there were other issues there as well.

Habitually performing major surgery without informed consent is a structural problem that can't be pinned on a single doctor. An incredible amount of checks have to break down to get to that point.

> Habitually performing major surgery without informed consent is a structural problem that can't be pinned on a single doctor. An incredible amount of checks have to break down to get to that point.

We agree.

Re: Former Xinjiang prisoner arrives in U.S. as key witness to abuses

#262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The CCP bots are in full force in the comments on this post. Whoa. I know what you mean, but it's not bots. It's not even the real 50 cent party would waste it's time with HN. Whatever activity they have in English-language social networks is probably directed at places where there's more bang for the buck. like Twitter or Reddit.

I'm not so sure. Considering even niche cesspools Kiwi Farms have (laughably transparent) CCP propagandists, it's not a stretch to think a place like HN would either. I think it's safer to assume bad faith on the part of anyone deflecting or trying to change the subject with whataboutist tactics (if not because they are literally paid propagandists, because this tactic is never conducive to discussion) and go from th…

> I'm not so sure. Considering even niche cesspools Kiwi Farms have (laughably transparent) CCP propagandists, it's not a stretch to think a place like HN would either.

It's not surprising that trolls troll.

> I think it's safer to assume bad faith on the part of anyone deflecting or trying to change the subject with whataboutist tactics (if not because they are literally paid propagandists, because this tactic is never conducive to discussion) and go from there.

I completely agree there. The point I meant to make is it's not bots or paid agents; Western useful idiots, people who are still in the CCP propaganda-sphere, and maybe some classic trolls.

Re: Former Xinjiang prisoner arrives in U.S. as key witness to abuses

#263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Habitually performing major surgery without informed consent is a structural problem that can't be pinned on a single doctor. An incredible amount of checks have to break down to get to that point.

> Habitually performing major surgery without informed consent is a structural problem that can't be pinned on a single doctor. An incredible amount of checks have to break down to get to that point. We agree.

No, because I doubt very much that it was "a lack of oversight". He pretty much must have had support for what he was doing. There's a difference between not noticing something occasionally weird and mass sterilization.

Re: Former Xinjiang prisoner arrives in U.S. as key witness to abuses

#264
post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The feds shut down the entire facility after the allegations came out. It wasn't a case of one doctor.

And did the feds shut down the facility due to public outcry?

I mean, after the lawsuit was filed, ICE shutdown the facility and expedited the deportations of all who had filed the suits leaving no paper trail and nowhere for the lawsuits to go. That's not exactly what I'd expect from an org acting on the up and up.

Re: Former Xinjiang prisoner arrives in U.S. as key witness to abuses

#265
post #67

It is clear that many people (sometimes with good intentions) would bring this logic to any discussion about this matter. . China is having their Muslim population put into camps and they live in a horrible injustice situation. They are targeted because of their religion /ethnicity. Chinese government saying that US is being hypocrite because they did so and so in Iraq and whatever happened after 9/11 from abuses..et…

No post body was provided.

Re: Former Xinjiang prisoner arrives in U.S. as key witness to abuses

#266
post #28

[flagged]

What's the alternative? Someone commits a felony, and then you...?

Not locking them in cages. The US locks up people at 10X the rate of every peer nation, literally. By my logic, this implies 90% should be free right now, via one mechanism or another.

Re: Former Xinjiang prisoner arrives in U.S. as key witness to abuses

#267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> don't oppose it. Formally they actively support it - they endorse PRC "deradicalization" policy since they suffer from extremist problems themselves. This isn't complicated, plurality of the world does not buy US/western genocide framing - they see PRC policy as relatively peaceful counter-insurgency and actual nation building effort for restive peoples which these regions have to deal with in spades. It's absolute…

>Formally they actively support it - they endorse PRC "deradicalization" policy since they suffer from extremist problems themselves. The USA just spent 20 years in the middle east 'deradicalizing' or at least that's the going claim from both these regimes. The USA doubts China because they know they were oh so wrong about that claim, not that they admit it. 99 terrorists on the wall, drone strike one, 105 terrorists…

>USA doubts China

IMO misplaced doubt since forceful integration is as old has human civilization. US/west did it with indigenous peoples, and modern CCP has done it with fragmented post civil war China. People criticize cultural revolution / reeducation but forgets it works, almost always with proper application of force and commitment. Which US lacked in Afghanistan but PRC doing in spades with XJ securitization. There's been 0 terrorist attacks since. It's time tested instrument of control.

>biased media

The entire XJ genocide initiative is spearheaded under lying Pompeo, using host of US funded NGOs to launder fabricated narratives with hundreds of millions of propaganda funding directed to manufactured consent. So at least that much.

>democracy is unstable and PRC communist control with security is serenity.

No I'm saying PRC approach to COIN/deradicalization with mass monitoring and securitization infra has so far proven to be more effective for maintaining peace than haphazardly blowing people up while dumping money into corrupt reconstruction efforts. It's just a more serious and systematic approach because by all accounts US gave up rebuilding politically and was shovelling resources into a hole for maintenance mode due to politics.

>brink of a peasant's revolt

Same was said about Wuhan and other PRC chernobyl moments. I'll wager there will be less upheaval than antimask/vax protests. Citing "flipflop" as if western epidemiological responses haven't had massive same week changes according to development. A privileged Tier1 city of 25m lockdown with expected logistic hiccups and so far it's mostly people moaning on social media with very little "revolt" bleeding in real life - hasn't even escalated to tier of drama at end of Hubei lock down when adjacent provinces were trying to block cross border travel. It's milder than anything experienced in the west so far for lockdown more severe than anything west have implemented. There's nothing unanticipated about public outrage over inconveniences from lockdowns - that's how humans lash out everywhere regardless of severity. But seeing "peasants revolt" and "far from serenity" because western media reposted some weibo complaints is how PRC collapsists have been consistently wrong.

Couple month from now, if SH trends the way of Jilin or Shenzheng then CCP could be bragging about system defeating infectious covid strain that broke every other system (including soon to live with virus TW). The ability to mobilize and logistically supply 25M people with some initial blunders will also be massive propaganda win - everyone blunders, state capacity is about who blunders least and self corrects quickest.

Re: Former Xinjiang prisoner arrives in U.S. as key witness to abuses

#268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Habitually performing major surgery without informed consent is a structural problem that can't be pinned on a single doctor. An incredible amount of checks have to break down to get to that point. We agree.

No, because I doubt very much that it was "a lack of oversight". He pretty much must have had support for what he was doing. There's a difference between not noticing something occasionally weird and mass sterilization.

> No, because I doubt very much that it was "a lack of oversight". He pretty much must have had support for what he was doing. There's a difference between not noticing something occasionally weird and mass sterilization.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/nov/21/congress-ice...:

> At least 43 women at Irwin county detention center (ICDC), in Georgia, have now alleged misconduct by Amin. He is accused of operating on migrant women without their consent or performing procedures that were medically unnecessary and potentially endangered their ability to have children.

https://www.ajc.com/news/congressmen-georgia-doctor-should-n...:

> Ogburn, who has worked as a board-certified obstetrician-gynecologist for nearly three decades and who has led organizations that develop patient care standards, said Amin did a variety of tests and surgeries for patients that “did them little or no good, and potentially caused harm.”

> “In summary the care provided by Dr. Amin did not meet acceptable standards based on the review of these records,” Ogburn wrote as part of his complaint. “My concern is that he was not competent and simply did the same evaluation and treatment on most patients because that is what he knew how to do, and/or he did tests and treatments that generated a significant amount of reimbursement without benefitting most patients.”

1. Less than 43 women is not "mass sterilization." It's well within the scope of damage could be expected from one incompetent doctor.

2. It's quite believable to me that the jail officials never questioned the medical activities of the doctor (let alone understood what he was doing was malpractice) and just ignored complaints they received from the detainees. For comparison, this outrageously incompetent guy (https://www.propublica.org/article/dr-death-christopher-dunt...) managed to avoid oversight for two years while he was maiming and killing people.

Re: Former Xinjiang prisoner arrives in U.S. as key witness to abuses

#269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Freedom of the press doesn't prevent the majority of Americans getting served whole distorted picture of what happened in Iraq and the Middle East in general or just flat out misinformation, or simply no reporting at all. Because there are very few actual journalist on the ground (and even less with any understanding of the local politics), most of the media just gets their information from gov news releases. Eventua…

My mistake. Xinjiang is A-OK then.

That's not what we are talking about. I simply point out wrong assertions.

Re: Former Xinjiang prisoner arrives in U.S. as key witness to abuses

#270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the alternative? Someone commits a felony, and then you...?

Not locking them in cages. The US locks up people at 10X the rate of every peer nation, literally. By my logic, this implies 90% should be free right now, via one mechanism or another.

...and then you do not lock them in cages. Repeat to annihilation.
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