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Former Xinjiang prisoner arrives in U.S. as key witness to abuses

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Re: Former Xinjiang prisoner arrives in U.S. as key witness to abuses

#61

Post by md_ »

earthbee wrote: post #51
throwaway040922 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

We should talk about the many abuses and injustices committed by the US, but why should every thread criticising Russia or China also be a thread criticising the US? If someone is genuinely concerned about the abuses of the US government then shouldn't they be making their own threads and posts without prompting, instead of just tacking them on to every thread about Russia or China?

Agreed, but perhaps, even more constructively: "Great, you agree we need more of an ability to shine a light on--and hold people to account for--human rights abuses worldwide."

The US has been deeply hypocritical by opposing the ICC, for example. But the policy fixes that we need for what's happening in Xinjiang--public accountability, international institutions with teeth--are the same ones we needed for what happened (and is still happening), at a fraction of the scale of Xinjiang, in Guantanamo.

"Whataboutism" only works because the whatabouters assume their opponents will reflexively defend the US (or whomever). The implication is, strangely, not "The US has done this too, so we need strong institutions to hold the powerful to account" but, rather, "The US has done this too, so whatareyougonnado?"

Re: Former Xinjiang prisoner arrives in U.S. as key witness to abuses

#62

Post by blueflow »

BobbyJo wrote: post #58
blueflow wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody wants China to get away with their camps, but no one wants the US to get away with Guantanamo Bay, either. > That's not the same as putting people into prison because their religious beliefs make them enemies of the state. Isn't this what some people ended up in Guantanamo Bay for? Edit: TIL https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uyghur_detainees_at_Guantanamo...

No. It's not. In some instances people were in the wrong place at the wrong time, or treated poorly based on pretty minor actions, but even at it's height Guantanamo housed Also, the U.S. didn't 'get away with' Guantanamo. It was a big news cycle and the prison is nearly shut down now, and operates with much more consideration for the prisoners, giving them access to counsel and repatriating then when able.

> housed Normal numbers are zero.

> Also, the U.S. didn't 'get away with' Guantanamo

Who ended up in prison for it?

Re: Former Xinjiang prisoner arrives in U.S. as key witness to abuses

#63

Post by Synaesthesia »

lr4444lr wrote: post #42
ATsch wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

I don't recall any US prison in the last 70+ years where people on the order of a million people, largely from a single region or ethnicity, were imprisoned on suspicion of mere affiliation. Every country probably has a signature few cases of prosecution that may provoke our indignation. That's not the same as putting people into prison because their religious beliefs make them enemies of the state.

I don’t recall China invading and destroying a successful Middle East country twice and utterly laying waste to the region and throwing it into chaos. One can debate over which crime is “worse” I suppose.

What’s also interesting is that towards the late 80s and 90s the USA was really warming up to China at a time when they were carrying out pretty horrible atrocities, far worse than the USSR, but that was the political agenda of the time.

Re: Former Xinjiang prisoner arrives in U.S. as key witness to abuses

#64

Post by Iwan-Zotow »

tabokie wrote: post #40
throwaway290 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many details are not that difficult to cross-check. Similar stories (typically involving mixed part-Uyghur families torn apart by Chinese government) are abound on social media. BBC, others reported extensively on other victims as well as relevant findings from satellite imagery etc. From my understanding this is less about uncovering some categorically new information, but more about someone able to testify in court…

I'm glad you mentioned. Those satellite images are jokes to most Chinese people. In fact, the western media's coverage of Xinjiang has demonstrated your hypocrisy to those of us who didn't know it before. After this, I think it's safe to say that western mainstream media has lost its credibility in China. Some of us (not me) don't even believe Bucha massacre, just because we heard it from your mouths. Just for your c…

there is no bucha massacre, all of it is us media invention

Re: Former Xinjiang prisoner arrives in U.S. as key witness to abuses

#66

Post by nukemaster »

lui8906 wrote: post #55
Bancakes wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the alternative? Someone commits a felony, and then you...?

> What's the alternative? Someone commits a felony, and then you...? The US is the OECD country with the highest per capita % of incarcerated individuals. By orders of magnitude. So it seems other countries have found other approaches? > Source: Half of the OECD countries have less than 100 people in prison per 100 000 inhabitants. Thirteen have between 100 and 200. Two countries exceed this – Poland with 230 and the…

Whatever California and NYC tried absolutely didn't work so you can't just say "something else."

Re: Former Xinjiang prisoner arrives in U.S. as key witness to abuses

#67

Post by NmAmDa »

It is clear that many people (sometimes with good intentions) would bring this logic to any discussion about this matter. . China is having their Muslim population put into camps and they live in a horrible injustice situation. They are targeted because of their religion /ethnicity.

Chinese government saying that US is being hypocrite because they did so and so in Iraq and whatever happened after 9/11 from abuses..etc would be good. If only they did that in general while not trying to say okay don't talk about us doing it because we think you did the same.

That would be great if you stand up against oppression in general not just when you can benefit. It would be great if we can just talk about people suffering and try to help them in every possible way.

Re: Former Xinjiang prisoner arrives in U.S. as key witness to abuses

#68

Post by VictorPath »

blueflow wrote: post #50
lr4444lr wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't recall any US prison in the last 70+ years where people on the order of a million people, largely from a single region or ethnicity, were imprisoned on suspicion of mere affiliation. Every country probably has a signature few cases of prosecution that may provoke our indignation. That's not the same as putting people into prison because their religious beliefs make them enemies of the state.

Nobody wants China to get away with their camps, but no one wants the US to get away with Guantanamo Bay, either. > That's not the same as putting people into prison because their religious beliefs make them enemies of the state. Isn't this what some people ended up in Guantanamo Bay for? Edit: TIL https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uyghur_detainees_at_Guantanamo...

> Guantanamo Bay

Other than that the US kidnaps people from various countries, often without approval of the country where the kidnapping happens, brings the rebel (patriot?) to Guantanamo Bay without even trial by US legal system and waterboards and tortures them and holds them indefinitely - although some are realized to be the wrong identity and let go - there is another point...

...Cuba has denounced the US military occupation of Guantanamo Bay for decades, and requested the US to leave. So this is happening against the wishes of the country it is happening in.

Re: Former Xinjiang prisoner arrives in U.S. as key witness to abuses

#69

Post by pfortuny »

plouffy wrote: post #8

Holly molly, the whatsaboutism in these comments.

I did not believe you when I first read your comment and then I scrolled down…

Do people realize that the British Empire was the thing that most opposed Hitler?

Seems like people know no history…

Re: Former Xinjiang prisoner arrives in U.S. as key witness to abuses

#70

Post by lenkite »

BobbyJo wrote: post #44
lenkite wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Terrible. But I felt terrible about Guantanamo Bay too. Still open by the way.

Do you think the camps in Xinjiang are as bad, or worse than Guantanamo? I think they are worse because: 1) You are put there for your ethnicity and religion, (no suspected crimes are needed for detainment), despite being a Chinese citizen. 2) Freedom of press in the US means we found out bad things were happening in Guantanamo, and the prison has since been mostly wound down. I think Guantanamo is good example of wh…

> 1) You are put there for your ethnicity and religion, (no suspected crimes are needed for detainment), despite being a Chinese citizen.

Ditto in Guantanamo. I suggest doing a bit more research.

> 2) Freedom of press in the US means we found out bad things were happening in Guantanamo, and the prison has since been mostly wound down.

Done not by the US press but by Wikileaks, whose founder ( Assange) is being hounded by both the US govt and the media.

Stop with the sanctimonious hypocrisy please.

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