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Former Xinjiang prisoner arrives in U.S. as key witness to abuses

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Re: Former Xinjiang prisoner arrives in U.S. as key witness to abuses

#241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ICE has been accused of performing large numbers of forced sterilizations within camps in US borders. https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/15/politics/immigration-customs-...

> ICE has been accused of performing large numbers of forced sterilizations within camps in US borders. > https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/15/politics/immigration-customs-... The hysterectomies weren't US or ICE policy , they were the result of poor oversight of one contract doctor who was committing malpractice. https://theintercept.com/2021/05/20/ice-irwin-hysterectomies... > ICE stopped sending immigrant women to Amin…

The feds shut down the entire facility after the allegations came out. It wasn't a case of one doctor.

Re: Former Xinjiang prisoner arrives in U.S. as key witness to abuses

#242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What part of forcing sterilizations in camps in our borders is 'making things right for foreigners'?

Often != always.

I'm sure that's what the CCP says about the Uighurs.

Re: Former Xinjiang prisoner arrives in U.S. as key witness to abuses

#244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The allied victory was paid in soviet blood. The axis had lost before the first US soldier stepped foot on European soil. Fuck off with your US white liberal savior complex.

> The allied victory was paid in soviet blood. The axis had lost before the first US soldier stepped foot on European soil. It's quite possible that things might have been different if the Nazis were secure on their Western front or the Soviets hadn't received American aid ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lend-Lease#US_deliveries_to_th... ). > Fuck off with your US white liberal savior complex. Really?

Yes. This is not the first time i feel this, it might be a cultural thing in the US.

Re: Former Xinjiang prisoner arrives in U.S. as key witness to abuses

#245
post #96
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Excuse me, but why would we take what most Chinese people believe as a factor when trying to verify or understand their government actions against Muslim minority? I mean not to say that Chinese people that most of them probably never heared (or cannot) of the tank man would be a good judgment about truth which the government are hiding on a regular basis.

I did not mention anything about "truth". Truth is a myth, especially in this era. What I did talk about, was how the average people in China think about all these. Note that all "genocide" evidence present here, is available in China (not as raw material maybe, but referenced and discussed). It's very different from tank man, which is hidden in public discussion. And since you mentioned, tank man (89 incident as we…

>Truth is a myth, especially in this era.

War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, Truth is Myth?

Re: Former Xinjiang prisoner arrives in U.S. as key witness to abuses

#246
post #67

It is clear that many people (sometimes with good intentions) would bring this logic to any discussion about this matter. . China is having their Muslim population put into camps and they live in a horrible injustice situation. They are targeted because of their religion /ethnicity. Chinese government saying that US is being hypocrite because they did so and so in Iraq and whatever happened after 9/11 from abuses..et…

> hypocrite ... > just talk about people suffering

Talk all you want, PRC's position is the hypocrisy is moving beyond talk into sanctions and other actions that undermine XJ development for counter-insurgency actions. Same reason rest of world is annoyed into being pressured to sanction RU over invading UKR when US/west did not. It's about weaponizing morality for geopolitics.

Re: Former Xinjiang prisoner arrives in U.S. as key witness to abuses

#247
post #184
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Chinese government saying that US is being hypocrite because they did so and so in Iraq and whatever happened after 9/11 from abuses. That is an argument against abuse, not in favor. What are their arguments to support their actions?

It's a completely fair question to ask what is the Chinese justification. I found this documentary[1] by CGTN about the recent history of extremism and terrorist attacks in Xinjiang to be useful in outlining some of the context for this. These terrorist attacks were a real problem and have resulted in the deaths of over 1000 civilians (including Uyghurs). China's argument is basically their re-education "camps" are a…

At end of the day repressing restive frontier minority that accounts for less than 1% of population for domestic security (especially terrorism) is the "correct" political decision for CCP. There isn't any feasible calculus for not taming XJ (or Tibet or HK or TW). The real answer is they were left alone for too long due difficult access (whether by geography or politics), granted privileges in hopes they would not stir up trouble. That didn't work, and now wealthier PRC can build high speed rail into their provinces to forcefully integrate. Something every other Chinese province was subject to post 50s. In short, it's simply their turn.

Even the most pessimistic Zenz estimates of XJ internment at 1/12 of population is roughly lifetime incarceration level of US blacks. And the hit job articles on XJ vocational/reeducational "slave" labour programs still have "inmates" paid dramatically better than US prison labour in absolute terms and substantially better in regional terms. Exceeding ~40% of 600M Han Chinese subsisting on informal wage economy. Han Chinese would lose their shit if they find out the amount of subsidies going into XJ securitization and sinicization. If they the the choice between spending trillions to "tame the savage" in XJ versus 12M bullets for an actual genocide, the amount that would pick the latter would be disturbing.

US tried to nation build and spread western values in Afghanistan - PRC is nation building in XJ and spreading PRC values. Just with less bombs and more infrastructure.

Re: Former Xinjiang prisoner arrives in U.S. as key witness to abuses

#248

The thing that confuses me is that China's muslim neighbours(ish) like Saudis, Pakistan or Kazakhstan support China in what they are doing. There is greater incentive for those 3 countries to care what China is doing to fellow Muslims and they don't oppose it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xinjiang_internment_camps

> don't oppose it.

Formally they actively support it - they endorse PRC "deradicalization" policy since they suffer from extremist problems themselves. This isn't complicated, plurality of the world does not buy US/western genocide framing - they see PRC policy as relatively peaceful counter-insurgency and actual nation building effort for restive peoples which these regions have to deal with in spades. It's absolutely in their interest for XJ model to work, and perhaps be adoptable through a neat package like Huawei smart cities. West exports democracy that ultimately destabilize vs PRC exports security for serenity. Of course latter is preferable.

Re: Former Xinjiang prisoner arrives in U.S. as key witness to abuses

#249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ICE has been accused of performing large numbers of forced sterilizations within camps in US borders. > https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/15/politics/immigration-customs-... The hysterectomies weren't US or ICE policy , they were the result of poor oversight of one contract doctor who was committing malpractice. https://theintercept.com/2021/05/20/ice-irwin-hysterectomies... > ICE stopped sending immigrant women to Amin…

The feds shut down the entire facility after the allegations came out. It wasn't a case of one doctor.

> The feds shut down the entire facility after the allegations came out. It wasn't a case of one doctor.

Well the hysterectomy thing was the one doctor (and the facility failing at its duty to properly oversee him). However, it wouldn't surprise me if there were other issues there as well.

Re: Former Xinjiang prisoner arrives in U.S. as key witness to abuses

#250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The allied victory was paid in soviet blood. The axis had lost before the first US soldier stepped foot on European soil. It's quite possible that things might have been different if the Nazis were secure on their Western front or the Soviets hadn't received American aid ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lend-Lease#US_deliveries_to_th... ). > Fuck off with your US white liberal savior complex. Really?

Yes. This is not the first time i feel this, it might be a cultural thing in the US.

> Yes. This is not the first time i feel this,

I'm sure it isn't.

> it might be a cultural thing in the US.

No, I don't think it's that.

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