This is the feeling I, and many others I know, have as well. You try to do some things here and there (using FF with UBO and DDG and no Google account and browsing FB in separate container and whatnot) and hope it improves privacy, but in the end you just don't really know whether it works or not. The way modern websites/apps/tracking/... work is way out of my field and I cannot be bothered to figure out whether the measures I do take, actually do improve privacy, let alone to what extent. As a result, I kinda gave up and assume that whatever I do is probably tracked and possibly linked to my persona. I don't like the feeling of that assumption, nor being tracked, yet day in day out I'm on the internet again. Because after all it kicks too wonderful to not do it.
I decided to move away from big tech for my children and myself
121–130 of 305 posts
Re: I decided to move away from big tech for my children and myself
#122Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I may or may not go as far as putting a custom cert on the phone so I can monitor all the traffic -- that will depend on if I catch them violating my trust. You are going to spy on you kids if they violate your trust, what does it take to violate your trust; visit a website that you don't like? How will your kids ever trust you again, if they find out you're spying on them for possible trust-violations?
I made it clear that I would not be spying on them -- that they would have full access to the monitoring and we would review it together.
Re: I decided to move away from big tech for my children and myself
#123Avoiding Google Search is already a sign of being at the more radical end of the spectrum IMO. I don't think avoiding big tech is really possible without joining a separate offline society. You can reduce it but you're not going to keep your kids offline without their friends also being offline.
I have hundreds of friends both IRL and online, hang out with lots of different people every week, have piles of hobbies (many involve tech), and run a b2b company serving major silicon valley tech firms. I also don't have a smartphone and I almost exclusively use open standards and open source software, most of which I self-host in a rack in my closet. The only way I can be reached is e-mail and matrix. You do -not-…
It's a big question for our generation. I posted this using a gemlog in gemini: protocol but it has an html proxy so that 'the world' can see it (I'm glad I did, I don't think we are to the point where posting a gemini: link works, even in HN, to get some attention.
Can you live, and market your business/services if you don't use social media? I'm betting you can, but I don't have data.
I have 1000s of twitter followers on company and personal accounts, but I rarely tweet anymore. Is it costing me business? Perhaps.
Re: I decided to move away from big tech for my children and myself
#124Earlier quoted context omitted.
Even teachers use Whatsapp to communicate with pupils nowadays. Here in Finland, from 13 and up, it's pretty much total social exclusion and severely reduced ability to participate in school work if you don't have a smartphone. Teenagers without phones is pretty much uneard of, apart from in some religious circles. The thing about those teenagers is that they rarely meet outside school. Covid made damn sure parents a…
> > Even teachers use Whatsapp to communicate with pupils nowadays. There are messaging platforms that are not dependent on Big Tech. If communication via group chat is so key to the school operations, parents are more than entitled to ask the school to implement a proper platform for it. > Covid made damn sure parents are somewhat paranoid about social contacts, and having people over is still pretty rare. That is y…
Re: I decided to move away from big tech for my children and myself
#125Earlier quoted context omitted.
If a teacher could not figure out how to communicate with a kid without routing those communications through Facebook servers, I would kindly teach them how e-mail, matrix, or other neutral internet protocols work. Honestly -most- of the time I tell people I don't have a phone they say something like "That is super cool, I wish I could do that. My phone has ruined my life. How would you prefer we keep in touch since…
> If a teacher could not figure out how to communicate with a kid without routing those communications through Facebook servers, I would kindly teach them how e-mail, matrix, or other neutral internet protocols work. And some (few) would appreciate your effort, but quite pragmatically have to acknowledge that there is no way they can support a classroom full of kids with those solutions, and that even if they could,…
That is what the teacher asking kids to use a Facebook product is doing. Speaking personally, if I end up with a kid in that situation, and they are limited in school in any way because they don't accept FAANG license agreements, I will take them to court and make a media shit show out of it.
Something being "normal" in education doesn't make it right, or unchangeable. Not washing hands in hospitals was once normal, and a small minority of people needed to challenge those norms to set appropriate healthcare hygiene standards.
Re: I decided to move away from big tech for my children and myself
#126Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I would like to say that we can teach kids to have a healthy relationship with the internet and social media but sites like TicTok are engineered to be as addictive as possible so that would be naïve of me to say. I don't think so. Don't underestimate the intelligence of kids. If your kid actually understands the way dopamine works (on a sufficient level), they will cultivate their own way of attention-management.…
Why do you think children will be more successful at outwitting nefarious companies' behavioural scientists than adults are? It is widely acknowledged that companies are successfully applying methods of grabbing and retaining our attention in order to sell us things, so I'm a bit cynical that children, already not renowned for impulse control, will be any better than adults in ignoring that.
because kids don't use Facebook?
Re: I decided to move away from big tech for my children and myself
#127The issues you are mentioning are very important. I use tech in the same way you do. Trying to get rid of tracking, Google services etc. But this is our free choice. Forcing that lifestyle upon other people like children will not succeed. They will see it as a personal crusade of you. As soon as they are old enough, they will get their smartphones and use social media heavily. Better talk to them about the issues of…
The problem is that these issues are hard to understand and properly value for adults... let alone children at 7 and 9.
Addiction. Privacy. Freedom of expression. Popularity contests and identity. Economies of Scale. Value of attention.
Damn hard to understand. And we really didn't cover the tech part. We have zero chances to convince adults away from the tech bubble. They don't get it, and don't want to get it. That includes the mom of my children unfortunately. So giving them the arguments and telling them 'it's your choice' won't work. They are too young to understand this.
Re: I decided to move away from big tech for my children and myself
#128This blog is a rant with several accusations (tech is bad for kids, TikTok is watching me) but no research or evidence into anything.
Re: I decided to move away from big tech for my children and myself
#129Earlier quoted context omitted.
I spent most of my childhood straight-edge and was thus cast out by peers for not joining them in their nonstop sex, alcohol, and drug addictions, and not being interested in sports. Instead I made fast friends with the other outcasts like me. The computer nerds, the anime nerds, the hobbyists, the actors, the musicians, the magicians, and the artists. People that spent life chasing their imagination and not worrying…
> I spent most of my childhood straight-edge and was thus cast out by peers for not joining them in their nonstop sex, alcohol, and drug addictions, and not being interested in sports. That's a false dichotomy - you posit that those things are the only alternatives, which is incorrect. I never did non-stop sex, drugs and alcohol (and ignored sports) in school, and yet I was part of a number of different social groupi…
While I share your objection on GP commenter's false dichotomy (though honesty who knows, maybe their high school was a real life enactment of Skins!) and their apparently judgemental attitude towards their peers, let's not forget that they also said they connected with:
>> The computer nerds, the anime nerds, the hobbyists, the actors, the musicians, the magicians, and the artists.
I.e. they were also part of a number of social circles despite not engaging in “non-stop sex, drugs and alcohol” etc.
I think that the overarching theme of this discussion is neither the false dichotomy that you pointed out, nor the dichotomy of social vs "non"-social, but rather how intense and alienating are a given culture's expectations to conform to the mainstream or its implications that this or that interest is better as of itself. Multiple social connections will always exist, and some shared interests will be more or less common. That is normal and socially healthy. What truly matters is that interest or lack of it in this or that hobby/theme/lifestyle does not result in cliquey social exclusion which can be very damaging in the long term.
Anecdotally, as someone who grew up in Spain, my generation would often comment on how bizarre it seemed to us that American high schools in fiction virtually always implied such a clear dividing line between those who were popular/sporty/cheerleaders on the one hand, and those who were nerdy/band/theatre on the other. Of course we knew people in school who would fit one stereotype more than others, and people were somewhat divided into groups of friends. However, these groups were neither themed, nor was belonging to one explicit and either-or, nor was there any implied social hierarchy in them.
Re: I decided to move away from big tech for my children and myself
#130Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's a fine line and you have to go with some of it safely . However, there are items that are 100% toxic and as parents we need to decide what those are. Things like rap/hip-hop music as an example, or TikTok. There are some things that just can't be consumed safely by impressionable minds. When they're older they can get into them if they so wish, but my hope is that their brains by that point would at least be mat…
> items that are 100% toxic [...] like rap/hip-hop music Didn't expect to see this take on HN, especially in the age when the library of congress includes hip-hop records and a former president expressed his appreciation towards it openly. Ffs, it is just another form of art. It isn't some vice that they will unfortunately have to eventually be able to work around, like alcohol. There is genuine value in it. Same wit…
Is this supposed to be some kind of moral argument? I once asked my classmate what the hiphop song was about becuase I couldn't follow the lyrics (I'm not native to the anglosphere) and he replied "It's about how he drives around and finds women to drug and rape". Apparently it was quite a popular hiphop song!